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Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe?

This is a discussion on Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe? within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; This is not my HD weapon. 5CD98C33-6145-4801-8B74-E3A81A61402B.jpeg This is my HD weapon. C15D5986-A875-4282-B6EC-FDD94DD63468.jpeg...


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Old April 19th, 2020, 12:17 PM   #76
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This is not my HD weapon.
5CD98C33-6145-4801-8B74-E3A81A61402B.jpeg

This is my HD weapon.
C15D5986-A875-4282-B6EC-FDD94DD63468.jpeg

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Old April 19th, 2020, 11:54 PM   #77
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Where I had a house out in the sticks my Socom would definitely be the gun to have.

1. Home invasions with multiple attackers are common anymore. 20 rounds without reloading beats handgun magazine capacity.
2. 911 response time in some areas here or depending where officers are when the call comes are routinely 30+ minutes. I have called 911 and it has been busy, or no answer several times. When the cops respond to a call of armed intruders they will have a rifle.
3. Felons are routinely on meth, heroin, and other hardcore drugs that desensitize pain and erase reasoning abilities, and they will likely continue to try to kill you after being shot. If you don't prepare you are gambling, I'd rather have a round that can take down a deer.
4. If your main gun is an M14, familiarity of operating it under stress is in your favor.
5. Violent criminals are scum, period and hold NO value on your life. I have a friend who was 30 years in law enforcement, who worked in homicide among other things, told me he keeps a loaded M14 for self defense at home, next to him at all times. After what he saw in Vietnam and working homicide, he was shocked at what human beings do to each other.
6. Many people are low income and if they have an M1A they may not have another rifle or even a pistol, it could be all they have. Also some older people are the same, I know when I get older and continue to downsize the only rifle I might have someday would likely be a Socom or Scout just because you can still target shoot steel and a long barrel M14 would be more unwieldy in a self defense scenario.
7. Some people are this way as I was for many years, I was strictly an M14 guy, no ARs and shotguns, just didn't want them.

Now in the city and even suburbs over penetration may be an issue but careful selections of ammo or even well tested and developed handloads could be effective. Glaser safety slugs take away the argument of over penetration for sure.
Some of the older posts where the guys said someone like me is "nuts" for considering an M1A Socom for self defense, I'd bet money they have never been in situation where an individual was dead set intent on killing them, It changes your outlook on life, especially self defense.
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Old April 20th, 2020, 12:08 AM   #78
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I agree with m14brian.

I no longer live in the country. I can almost touch my neighbors home and my home at the same time... (Exaggerating) ... But not by much. A shotgun slug or rifle round fired inside my house WILL stop in someone else's house.

If I still lived in the country, my defense weapon would be the most powerful weapon I had...

I also have the wife to consider. I often travel for work and am gone overnight. She too needs to be able to protect herself. She also has had extensive back surgeries. Shotguns and powerful rifles are out of the picture for her. Too much back pain.

She practices a lot with her Glock and is much better with pistols than I am. But we both agree in a self defense situation, long guns are just easier. Hence why we're getting her a sub gun and will spend a lot of time at the range practicing shooting it.

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Old April 20th, 2020, 12:10 AM   #79
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Old April 20th, 2020, 12:49 AM   #80
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It is somewhat recognized that women are naturally more comfortable and instinctually handle long guns offhand better than men, all factors and training or lack thereof being equal and as long as they're not too heavy. I couldn't believe how good a shot my ex wife was with my AKs never having prior training and shot only a couple times in her life, she was a real natural too, shot better than most of my friends. A pistol caliber carbine might be perfect for your wife, low recoiling and long gun handling characteristics. Women naturally by their build have a lower center of gravity than men and it helps in shooting handguns and long guns offhand.
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Old April 20th, 2020, 01:20 AM   #81
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He seems to enjoy it. I don't think Uncle Gavin will let me have one.

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Old April 20th, 2020, 05:58 AM   #82
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Quote:
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Women naturally by their build have a lower center of gravity than men and it helps in shooting handguns and long guns offhand.
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What about guys with big beer bellies?

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Old April 20th, 2020, 06:05 AM   #83
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i like my glock 17,they make 33 round mags

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Old April 22nd, 2020, 06:47 PM   #84
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As has been said, the best SD firearm is the one you are most proficient with. Personally, I never thought much of a shotgun for home defensive use, what if the bad guy is holding your kid in front of them? Or they are close enough to be in the spread? I prefer an AK-74, the round won’t go through walls (much), and a hit will stop the fight. Handguns are a good second choice. I’ll save my SA M1A for longer range situations. YMMV of course.


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Old April 23rd, 2020, 09:08 AM   #85
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Let's talk about noise and hearing protection. Firing a firearm inside with no ear protection is almost guaranteed to have some lasting hearing loss.

Do you have muffs near your home defense weapon? Does your wife have a set? Your kids?

Everyone in the house that night is going to have some lever of hearing loss.

I like suppressors on HD weapons.

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Old April 23rd, 2020, 11:40 AM   #86
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Gentlemen, Over time, I have pretty much approached this topic from every angle. Initially, I felt that a handgun was probably the best option. Handguns are compact and are easy to handle in confined spaces. However, virtually all handguns chambered for the common defensive ammo are lacking in terminal ballistic performance - some more than others. I'm not saying that someone shot with such handguns might not die but 90% of all people shot with a handgun survive and I would suspect that a large number of those are able to continue aggressive action when shot - at least for a long enough time that they pose a threat to the homeowner and his family. Shotguns are excellent manstoppers at closer range - assuming one uses the proper type of ammo. However, shotguns have only a limited magazine capacity and it a fight with multiple assailants that is a definite disadvantage. Also, buckshot really penetrates wall material much more than most believe. Still, most folks are much better at aiming a shotgun at an assailant and scoring hits than with a handgun. Now this lead me to look at rifles. They have good terminal ballistic performance (assuming you have one chambered for rifle cartridges), are relatively easy to shoot well and many have more than sufficient magazine capacity. However, many are so large that they are clumsy in the CQB environment. Some also have a great deal of penetration capability and have an outrageous muzzle blast when fired in a structure. The long gun that works best in my opinion is the M4 carbine. It's erogonomics are excellent. It has good terminal ballistic performance but doesn't overpenetrate as much as some pistol cartridges (assuming you are using a light weight projectile). You can get darn near purchase any size magazine so magazine capacity isn't an issue for most of us who live in free states.

There is no such thing as a perfect firearm but for home defense, an M4 carbine has way more positives than negatives. Keep in mind that when the police arrive, they will probably be carrying M4's. I think that says a lot.

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Old April 23rd, 2020, 04:01 PM   #87
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I actually use a scout with a vortex flash hider that shortens the overall length (amont other upgrades) as my go to rifle for home defense. I live in a rural area and I'm more likely to need it for a coyote but when hornady started making critical defense 308 specifically for home defense I kicked my ar out of the bedroom. A 25rd magazine and a semiautomatic rifle that's still shorter than a 12gauge is nearly unstoppable. I've got twice the energy transfer of a 5.56 or a 00buck round and the round is made for this exact thing.
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Old April 24th, 2020, 10:02 AM   #88
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I actually use a scout with a vortex flash hider that shortens the overall length (amont other upgrades) as my go to rifle for home defense. I live in a rural area and I'm more likely to need it for a coyote but when hornady started making critical defense 308 specifically for home defense I kicked my ar out of the bedroom. A 25rd magazine and a semiautomatic rifle that's still shorter than a 12gauge is nearly unstoppable. I've got twice the energy transfer of a 5.56 or a 00buck round and the round is made for this exact thing.
My favorite rifles are M14 type rifles. However, they aren't the best at CQB. Here's something to consider. A 7.62 NATO cartridge has roughly twice the amount of propellant as a 5.56 cartridge. Out of 16" barrels which one do you think makes the greatest amount of noise? An M4 is extremely loud inside a structure but a SOCOM 16 would be much worse.

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Old April 24th, 2020, 03:44 PM   #89
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I have a SOCOM mounted in a Sage EBR and it's my defensive "reach out and thump someone" or my bush rifle, but I also have my shotgun and AR-15 for home defense as well as my pistol/s.

When I was a cop and firearms instructor we were one of the first departments to seek "Patrol rifle" options in our area. This was shortly after the North Hollywood shootout and we realized that although we had good quality Beretta shotguns in our cruisers (I did not like these) but the worked well with 00 buck or slugs but we needed something to put us on equal ground with the scumbags.

I was tasked with identifying what type of "patrol rifle" caliber and weapon platform we should go with.

After a great deal of research, I found an article by the Michigan State Police on their testing for patrol rifle caliber, etc.

They tested all types of sub calibers 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 Cal, etc... These I believe were in the AR platform.

They found for police purposes all of these rounds were likely to over penetrate inside buildings, houses, etc.

They also tested rifle calibers and found that the 556/223 round was least likely to over penetrate common building materials because of the way the bullet is designed unless it's an AP round or something like that.

The 556/223 is a bottom heavy round that upon impact causes the bullet to tumble or disintegrate loosing momentum for lack of a better term and therefore slowing the round causing it to stop in most common building materials upon impact.

The 556/223 round was found to be far superior to other calibers either rifle or pistol in stopping a threat because of this quick and violent energy transfer and safer so it is less likely to go all the way through the interior of house like a shotguns rifled slug, 00 buck, 308, 9mm or even a 40 caliber would do.

It's still hard to beat a shotgun loaded with anything but 00 buck or a slug for home protection. I would suggest using something like #4 or #7 1/2 shot for interior home defense as this is much less likely to over penetrate and kill or injure a loved one on the other side of a wall.

Just my 2 cents, I hope it gives you some insight!

P.S. I've been retired since 2012, but I don't think anybody has come up with any other caliber that is better for a "home defense rifle" according to the MSP findings, but I'm kind of out of the loop unfortunately.


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Old April 24th, 2020, 04:54 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by M1_Cajun View Post
Let's talk about noise and hearing protection. Firing a firearm inside with no ear protection is almost guaranteed to have some lasting hearing loss.

Do you have muffs near your home defense weapon? Does your wife have a set? Your kids?

Everyone in the house that night is going to have some lever of hearing loss.

I like suppressors on HD weapons.
If I had to shoot a gun in my house at someone this would probably be the least of my worries.

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