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Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe?

This is a discussion on Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe? within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Autoguns +1 Best comment I've read in the thread I use a 1911 for around the house ,but if needed I can ...


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Old August 13th, 2009, 11:42 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Autoguns View Post
+1 Best comment I've read in the thread

I use a 1911 for around the house ,but if needed I can and would use whatever fire power needed to stop the aggression ......up to 50 bmg. if that didn't work Then I guess I'd have to call in a air strike
I very much agree with the above....I live in the country on a little farm, I'm accustomed to using all the weapons I mentioned earlier....my main go to weapon is any one of three Remington 870's I have ready to go, and various other S&W and Colt handguns placed in various places of the house....with all of that said, I can easily access my M14's and AR's as well, and believe me, I can, and would use them if I see necessary.....matter of fact, an evil doer won't be happy with me if all I have is a lowly Ruger 10/22 in my hand.

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Old August 13th, 2009, 06:06 PM   #47
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I agree that a scattergun or pistol of a reasonable chambering would be better suited to HD, I have a Mossy M-590A1 with #4 buck on my side of the bed at night, and Mrs. Hotlead has a 1911 full of .45 hardball. She stays by the phone with said pistol while I investigate the bumps.

I also agree with the "use what you got" statement. The first rifle I bought was an M1, so for a few years the gun by my side of the bed chambered 30.06, not the most advised HD round, but it's what I had. Well, it worked for Clint Eastwood in his last movie, anyway.

On EBRs, what will the LEOs be holding when they show up to a armed burglery call where shots were fired? Most likely in my parts these days, an EBR of some sort. So if that's what's handy at the moment, your lawyer can say that you were just using what you had, what the cops used to respond to the call, and what they use to defend themselves when they know a badguy is armed.

Just a few of my opinions.

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Old August 13th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #48
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In addition to whatever weapon you choose, a dog is second to none for early detection imo. As far as LEOs go... if an intruder gets made by your dog, and still approaches you, it should be easy to prove thet he meant you harm.

Sorry for venturing off topic. Just wanted to mention other approaches to sd besides the weapon of choice. A dog (if youre a dog person) is a huge deterrent.

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Old August 13th, 2009, 08:47 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by haldir View Post
The police might find self defense hard to believe at 800 meters
AWSOME!

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Old August 13th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #50
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You are definitely right that an M1A will do the job...but what about the bullet going through stuff...like walls...or houses...or other people? I think that is more the point.

Will a 14 save your life? No question. But at what other possible costs?
Perfectly said, keep in mind where you live, surroundings, your backdrop... Just like LEO's it may be a good shoot, but the second your round pass through your intended target, you will be liable.

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Old August 13th, 2009, 08:51 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Autoguns View Post
+1 Best comment I've read in the thread

I use a 1911 for around the house ,but if needed I can and would use whatever fire power needed to stop the aggression ......up to 50 bmg. if that didn't work Then I guess I'd have to call in a air strike
+3.....

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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:17 PM   #52
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Hey There, Guys...

Let's keep things on track here and let's keep things friendly.

We are not going to tolerate flaming and if it continues, this thread will be closed.

Carry On...

==========================================

My .02 is that a rifle like an M14 has too much penetration for use in an suburban/urban self defense situation. They are great for turning cover into concealment or in open areas with a clear backstop, but an M14 wouldn't be my first choice for a suburban neighborhood with close-together housing.

If you have the availability to do this where you shoot, try some military ball on several sheets of sheet rock or even some bricks. You'll see pretty quick how much penetration this round has... it will go right through a brick and mortar wall (an LEO friend and I tested this on an abandoned brick duplex on his father's farm using an M1A with Aussie surplus). Multiple hits (5+) blew a visible hole through the brick, went through the inner wall and into the back wall...

It will also go right through 2 pieces of sheet rock and the 2 X 4 they are nailed to... Standard doors and door frames don't stand a chance... been there/done that!

I was interested in the brick/sheet rock thing because that's the way my place is constructed. Incoming or outgoing, I think a 7.62 X 51 round would make life very uncomfortable for anyone down range, including innocent folks that may be in the line of fire.

Since I live in the suburbs, my M1A stays in the safe, unlike my Mossberg!!!

YMMV.

db
Yea someone told me that the .308 "shoots through cover". After firing my SOCOM I have no doubt about that especially at a close range.

As I mentioned I too live in a neighborhood and that I would not want to use my rifle for a HD situation. Not much trouble in my neck of the woods but I guess if I had to 'repel borders' I'd be set. But that would mean that things have gone REAL BAD. I hope one would NEVER be in that kind of a situation.

But I sleep better knowing I have it. Like they say..... better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:42 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by socom16Z View Post
The best gun for home defense is the one in your hand.

Granted an M1A may be unwieldly in a hall way but if it's all you got, then use it.
I agree with this as well, but the question wasn't "can I use my M14 for self defense?" it was "which model of the M1A should I buy for self defense?" And my answer was, and remains "none of the above."

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Old August 16th, 2009, 01:11 AM   #54
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I'm still stumped that my man from Austria can own a m1a , glock , probably a saiga style shotgun but not a pump action 870. Wow. What are the limits for the m1a ? As far as mag cap , flash hider , bayo lug.

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Old August 19th, 2009, 01:06 AM   #55
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I have found frangible loads for my AR-15 and they come apart well enoughthat I do not believe they will be a problem in my home, a large can of soup seems to slow them down pretty well. Are there loads like this for the 7.62 ?

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Old August 19th, 2009, 02:41 PM   #56
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Although as I watched this thread continue I had assured myself I would let it be, I no longer can. Although what I have to say will most likely be ignored or refuted alas I feel as though someone might benefit.

All the point present can be directed to the rules of safe firearm handling.

1. Finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
2. Know your target and what is behind it.
3. Keep all firearms pointed in the safest direction.
4. Don't point your firearm at anything you don't plan on shooting.

If you adhere to just those four you can safely employ any firearm in a self defense situation. I have always added an extra rule that pops up in the gun world from time to time.

(?) Know you firearms ins and outs, learn it like you would learn an intimate partner, its likes dislikes, faults and values, learn to master your firearm in all situations, climates, and surroundings, make that firearm an extension of your body until using it is no different that using an arm or leg, do not let the firearm choose your path but let your path choose firearm.

When the "situation" of extremes calls your number you use what you have at hand, if you are lucky what you have is the best. Know that when the situation has passed there will be attempts to return to life as we have always known it and you will be held accountable for every action you took.

Personally I do not feel that sidearms are a cure all for every situation and that there will be a time sooner or later that a rifle will be the only solution to the problem at hand. If all the rules are followed and you make a clean shot that you know in your conscience was just and true than it don't really matter what you used.

As far as which length is best, well thats all preference, try them all.

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Old August 19th, 2009, 06:22 PM   #57
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7.62 penetration ain't always a bad thing...

especially if the SD application involves autos.

Having said that (because this IS the M-14 Forum) a shotgun has been mentioned as a favorite in the few training classes I've attended.

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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #58
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THE best home defense weapon, IMHO, is a 12 ga shotgun. Not to alienate the rifle and handgun crowd. Here's a quick rundown of the reasons I think why:

1. With the right loads, the projectiles won't penetrate walls, either interior or exterior. If you live with other people, or in a populated area, where are those rifle projectiles going to go if you miss or when they fully penetrate the suspect and keep going? Into your kid's room? Into the neighbor's house? Sure, slugs and large buckshot will penetrate some interior walls, but not to the extent that rifle bullets will. If penetration is really an issue, a gut full of small bird shot can do some serious damage to the human body at close range and will be stopped by most interior walls.

2. Intimidation factor. If there is time to engage the suspect in dialog before firing, pointing the muzzle at the suspect and briskly chambering a round on a pump action gun will almost ALWAYS produce compliance with your orders. It seems that everyone knows the sound of a pump gun being cycled, and that it is a BAD sound to hear when one is pointed your way. Remember, the law states that we must use the minimum amount of force in any confrontation to effect orders and stop a crime. In any event, a muzzle with a BIG hole pointed your way is intimidating, even though you can't have a pump gun.

3. Shotguns tend to cause massive trauma. From what I have heard and seen, a human hit with a shotgun, normally does not get back up to continue shooting or stabbing at you. Yes, rifles can do the same thing with the right ammo---but there's the overpenetration issue again.

4. As far as handguns are concerned, they are more difficult to shoot accurately than a long arm for the majority of the populace. Most defensive rounds lack the power to penetrate through multiple walls, so handguns are a better idea than most rifles. I'm still using a 12 ga. as my main arm, and a handgun as a backup in a home invasion. Just thought I'd throw that in.

5. Versatility. A 12 ga. is the Swiss Army Knife of long guns. You can choose lethal very large single projectiles (slugs) both high output 1600-fps 1 oz. models to low-recoil police loads, large multiple projectiles (buckshot) either high output or low recoil, small and usually lethal projectiles (bird shot) of all sizes, non-lethal rubber balls and sandbags of varying sizes, door breaching rounds, exotic rounds, and everything in between, depending on your needs. I have a Vietnam veteran friend who claims to have removed the shot pellets from standard loads and load them with small nails and window (glaser's) tacks to better defeat foliage, and had heard from my great granddad that rock salt loaded in a 12 ga hull was the best non-lethal round. Dunno about the truths of those stories, but they sound plausible. Anyhow, versatility. If I had only one long gun, a short 12 ga. would be it.

Closely followed by my M1A Scout, of course. :-D

YMMV.


Last edited by RedSS; August 20th, 2009 at 12:41 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:33 PM   #59
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Old August 25th, 2009, 08:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSS View Post
THE best home defense weapon, IMHO, is a 12 ga shotgun. Not to alienate the rifle and handgun crowd. Here's a quick rundown of the reasons I think why:

1. With the right loads, the projectiles won't penetrate walls, either interior or exterior. If you live with other people, or in a populated area, where are those rifle projectiles going to go if you miss or when they fully penetrate the suspect and keep going? Into your kid's room? Into the neighbor's house? Sure, slugs and large buckshot will penetrate some interior walls, but not to the extent that rifle bullets will. If penetration is really an issue, a gut full of small bird shot can do some serious damage to the human body at close range and will be stopped by most interior walls.

2. Intimidation factor. If there is time to engage the suspect in dialog before firing, pointing the muzzle at the suspect and briskly chambering a round on a pump action gun will almost ALWAYS produce compliance with your orders. It seems that everyone knows the sound of a pump gun being cycled, and that it is a BAD sound to hear when one is pointed your way. Remember, the law states that we must use the minimum amount of force in any confrontation to effect orders and stop a crime. In any event, a muzzle with a BIG hole pointed your way is intimidating, even though you can't have a pump gun.

3. Shotguns tend to cause massive trauma. From what I have heard and seen, a human hit with a shotgun, normally does not get back up to continue shooting or stabbing at you. Yes, rifles can do the same thing with the right ammo---but there's the overpenetration issue again.

4. As far as handguns are concerned, they are more difficult to shoot accurately than a long arm for the majority of the populace. Most defensive rounds lack the power to penetrate through multiple walls, so handguns are a better idea than most rifles. I'm still using a 12 ga. as my main arm, and a handgun as a backup in a home invasion. Just thought I'd throw that in.

5. Versatility. A 12 ga. is the Swiss Army Knife of long guns. You can choose lethal very large single projectiles (slugs) both high output 1600-fps 1 oz. models to low-recoil police loads, large multiple projectiles (buckshot) either high output or low recoil, small and usually lethal projectiles (bird shot) of all sizes, non-lethal rubber balls and sandbags of varying sizes, door breaching rounds, exotic rounds, and everything in between, depending on your needs. I have a Vietnam veteran friend who claims to have removed the shot pellets from standard loads and load them with small nails and window (glaser's) tacks to better defeat foliage, and had heard from my great granddad that rock salt loaded in a 12 ga hull was the best non-lethal round. Dunno about the truths of those stories, but they sound plausible. Anyhow, versatility. If I had only one long gun, a short 12 ga. would be it.

Closely followed by my M1A Scout, of course. :-D

YMMV.
+1 to RedSS

I love my M1a, Definitely the best Rifle I have, but for good HD, my old 590 with 00buck, and a saddle with slugs for whatever else. Plus, an M9 bayo fits right on the front. Good CQB firearm. Its been through a few tactical courses, and has never failed me.

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