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Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe?

This is a discussion on Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe? within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by TonyDedo One thing you should keep in mind is the Lethal Force laws where you live. For instance, here in Massachusetts these ...


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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TonyDedo View Post
One thing you should keep in mind is the Lethal Force laws where you live. For instance, here in Massachusetts these laws are very strict, and it's common belief that if you ever need to use a firearm in self defense, you're going to be thoroughly investigated and likely prosecuted after the fact. Therefore, you need to take into consideration the "defendability" your choice of self defense firearm.

There are some people who choose to keep M4 clone AR-15s with special optics, lights, lasers and lots of 30 round magazines as their home defense rifle. When a prosecutor holds this kind of a rifle up to an uneducated judge and jury, it's going to make him look like a nut (and personally, I think people who keep these kinds of rifles under their bed for self defense are a little nuts).

I find it a little odd that pump action shotguns are illegal whereas semi auto versions are not, and that a semi auto shotgun is more expensive than an M14. But regardless, I think you're far better off with some form of shotgun or just a good ol' fashion .38 revolver rather than a 10 foot long battle rifle. But that's just my two cents…
this is why im glad self defense means exactly that here in TN. i dont have to worry about using a victory model 38 just so i dont look like a nut.

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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Gas-Operated View Post
Explain.
Easy:

#1, there are no HD situations that would require the capabilities of a high powered rifle (situations where a handgun or shotgun would not suffice)

#2, there are plenty of reasons why a high powered rifle is not suitable for HD situations (over penetration, unwieldy size)

#3, it can be very hard to defend the use of deadly force, and in the face of a ambitious prosecutor and an uneducated jury, it's ever harder to do so when you used an evil black rifle

Everyone I've talked to on this subject who claims they need or are better off with an EBR for home defense has yet to be able to give an argument that defeats the three points I listed above. The conclusion is that these people want to keep EBRs as so-called home defense firearms because they think it's cool, and that, my friend, is nuts.

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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:15 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TonyDedo View Post
Easy:

#1, there are no HD situations that would require the capabilities of a high powered rifle (situations where a handgun or shotgun would not suffice)

#2, there are plenty of reasons why a high powered rifle is not suitable for HD situations (over penetration, unwieldy size)

#3, it can be very hard to defend the use of deadly force, and in the face of a ambitious prosecutor and an uneducated jury, it's ever harder to do so when you used an evil black rifle

Everyone I've talked to on this subject who claims they need or are better off with an EBR for home defense has yet to be able to give an argument that defeats the three points I listed above. The conclusion is that these people want to keep EBRs as so-called home defense firearms because they think it's cool, and that, my friend, is nuts.

Just to play "Devil's Advocate" :

#1 and #2, You live near the Mexican border and some drug gang is trying to kill you for whatever reason, and are shooting at your house from behind cover such as cars and trucks, doors, auto glass etc.

#3 It beats being dead.

That being said, I would use a handgun or shotgun because of the area I live in, buy I would care less what some prosecuter or jury will think at the time where my family is in grave danger.

The country is headed for the toilet BECAUSE we walk on eggshells around the uneducated.

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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:25 AM   #34
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Just to play "Devil's Advocate" :

#1 and #2, You live near the Mexican border and some drug gang is trying to kill you for whatever reason, and are shooting at your house from behind cover such as cars and trucks, doors, auto glass etc.
That's not self defense, that's a gang war. If you have a drug gang laying siege to your home, there's probably a good reason for it...

And if you don't and you're just preparing for it, you fall back under my category of "nuts," along with everyone who's watched Red Dawn one to many times and is stocking up on 7.62x39 in case the Soviets invade.

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Just to play "Devil's Advocate" :
#3 It beats being dead.
Indeed, but as I said before, a revolver or shotgun is just as likely to keep you from being dead. I'd rather be not-dead AND not-in-jail rather than just not-dead.

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Just to play "Devil's Advocate" :

That being said, I would use a handgun or shotgun because of the area I live in, buy I would care less what some prosecuter or jury will think at the time where my family is in grave danger.

The country is headed for the toilet BECAUSE we walk on eggshells around the uneducated.
Hey, this is the way it is, but I'm not saying I like it. But I'm not going to leave my wife and kids at home while I rot in jail just because I'm too stubborn to choose a more suitable home defense firearm. You're not giving anything up in terms of effectiveness, but you're risking the world otherwise. Seems like a pretty clear choice to me...

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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:43 AM   #35
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this is why im glad self defense means exactly that here in TN. i dont have to worry about using a victory model 38 just so i dont look like a nut.
Gary Fadden thought the same thing, and he got put through the ringer in ways I don't want to even imagine...

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Old August 12th, 2009, 03:31 PM   #36
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No my brother you've got too much rifle for that. Shotgun, pistol, Brown Bess musket, or bow. (Did he say bow?) Unless you live in BFE.

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Old August 12th, 2009, 05:02 PM   #37
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The best gun for home defense is the one in your hand.

Granted an M1A may be unwieldly in a hall way but if it's all you got, then use it.

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Old August 12th, 2009, 05:59 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by TonyDedo View Post
Easy:

#1, there are no HD situations that would require the capabilities of a high powered rifle (situations where a handgun or shotgun would not suffice)

#2, there are plenty of reasons why a high powered rifle is not suitable for HD situations (over penetration, unwieldy size)

#3, it can be very hard to defend the use of deadly force, and in the face of a ambitious prosecutor and an uneducated jury, it's ever harder to do so when you used an evil black rifle

Everyone I've talked to on this subject who claims they need or are better off with an EBR for home defense has yet to be able to give an argument that defeats the three points I listed above. The conclusion is that these people want to keep EBRs as so-called home defense firearms because they think it's cool, and that, my friend, is nuts.
Home invasions happen. When you wake up in the middle of night with multiple intruders who are armed and high on drugs, you want every advantage possible. Handguns are short on stopping power and shotguns can be difficult to handle and shoot well (for example my little 5'1 wife is not a good fit with my Winchester 1300).

If you pick the right cartridge, .223 isn't going to penetrate more than a shotgun or a pistol, but it gives you a decisive advantages in firepower.

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Old August 12th, 2009, 07:34 PM   #39
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Question .223

Quote:
"If you pick the right cartridge, .223 isn't going to penetrate more than a shotgun or a pistol, but it gives you a decisive advantages in firepower."
Mass-Diver

I missed something somewhere...what's .223 got to do with anything getting kicked back and forth at the end of this thread?

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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:01 PM   #40
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I was just using .223 as an example (sorry for the poor wording) of an EBR round that doesn't over-penetrate. I did not mean that .223 would be the best choice (versus 7.62xanything, etc) instead I was trying to respond to Tony's post that it's "nuts" to consider any EBR for HD.





Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDedo View Post

Everyone I've talked to on this subject who claims they need or are better off with an EBR for home defense has yet to be able to give an argument that defeats the three points I listed above. The conclusion is that these people want to keep EBRs as so-called home defense firearms because they think it's cool, and that, my friend, is nuts.

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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #41
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDedo View Post
And if you don't and you're just preparing for it, you fall back under my category of "nuts," along with everyone who's watched Red Dawn one to many times and is stocking up on 7.62x39 in case the Soviets invade.

I don't worry about the Soviets invading but in this day and age as far as gang problems go ANYTHING is possible ANYWHERE.


Last edited by Pvt. Joker; August 13th, 2009 at 08:34 AM. Reason: I was off topic, I eliminated negative comments
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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #42
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Hey There, Guys...

Let's keep things on track here and let's keep things friendly.

We are not going to tolerate flaming and if it continues, this thread will be closed.

Carry On...

==========================================

My .02 is that a rifle like an M14 has too much penetration for use in an suburban/urban self defense situation. They are great for turning cover into concealment or in open areas with a clear backstop, but an M14 wouldn't be my first choice for a suburban neighborhood with close-together housing.

If you have the availability to do this where you shoot, try some military ball on several sheets of sheet rock or even some bricks. You'll see pretty quick how much penetration this round has... it will go right through a brick and mortar wall (an LEO friend and I tested this on an abandoned brick duplex on his father's farm using an M1A with Aussie surplus). Multiple hits (5+) blew a visible hole through the brick, went through the inner wall and into the back wall...

It will also go right through 2 pieces of sheet rock and the 2 X 4 they are nailed to... Standard doors and door frames don't stand a chance... been there/done that!

I was interested in the brick/sheet rock thing because that's the way my place is constructed. Incoming or outgoing, I think a 7.62 X 51 round would make life very uncomfortable for anyone down range, including innocent folks that may be in the line of fire.

Since I live in the suburbs, my M1A stays in the safe, unlike my Mossberg!!!

YMMV.

db

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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:52 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass-Diver View Post
I was just using .223 as an example (sorry for the poor wording) of an EBR round that doesn't over-penetrate. I did not mean that .223 would be the best choice (versus 7.62xanything, etc) instead I was trying to respond to Tony's post that it's "nuts" to consider any EBR for HD.
No worries, just thought that the cartridge referenced in an M1A discussion was outta place. Perhaps I was a little anal considering the topic

Personally I got some TAP 110 LEO for SHTF loaded up in 20 rd mags inside my safe door...and the Glock 22 on the night stand to cover that distance (20 feet). So it aint under my bed but it aint a mile away empty either...

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Old August 12th, 2009, 11:28 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by socom16Z View Post
The best gun for home defense is the one in your hand.

Granted an M1A may be unwieldly in a hall way but if it's all you got, then use it.
+1 Best comment I've read in the thread

I use a 1911 for around the house ,but if needed I can and would use whatever fire power needed to stop the aggression ......up to 50 bmg. if that didn't work Then I guess I'd have to call in a air strike

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Old August 13th, 2009, 06:15 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckbuck View Post
If you have the availability to do this where you shoot, try some military ball on several sheets of sheet rock or even some bricks. You'll see pretty quick how much penetration this round has... it will go right through a brick and mortar wall (an LEO friend and I tested this on an abandoned brick duplex on his father's farm using an M1A with Aussie surplus). Multiple hits (5+) blew a visible hole through the brick, went through the inner wall and into the back wall...

It will also go right through 2 pieces of sheet rock and the 2 X 4 they are nailed to... Standard doors and door frames don't stand a chance... been there/done that!

"It's an .88 Magnum. It shoots through schools."
- Danny Vermin (Joe Piscopo, in Johnny Dangerously) I've always loved that quote


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