This is a discussion on Classic M1A or socom 16 suitable as an defense rilfe? within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I keep an M1A scout and pretend like it's a defensive weapon as a justification for having it.....it's mostly just a range toy (although I ...
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|August 2nd, 2009, 02:28 PM||#16|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
I keep an M1A scout and pretend like it's a defensive weapon as a justification for having it.....it's mostly just a range toy (although I do want to take a deer with mine this year). I have an 18" 870 12 gauge which is lighter and more effective at home defense ranges that I'd reach for first in an emergency. I'd probably reach for my .40 smith m&p pistol before the M1A in that scenario as well. I live in a condo.
A small bit of the .308's over penetration risk can be mitigated by using very light loads like the 110gr hornady TAP .308. This round usually fragements before it penetrates too many barriers, although I certainly still wouldn't want to be in the next apartment over after someone fired it off.
|August 2nd, 2009, 02:40 PM||#17|
Join Date: Jul 2009
So what are youse guys trying to tell me? Using armor piercing in an apartment might not be a good thing... dagnabit, back for more ammo now...
|August 2nd, 2009, 03:12 PM||#18|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Say you do have your M1A for self defense, in a condo/house/townhouse or what have you. You have typical Nato rounds for it and plink at the range every other weekend so your weapon's sights are set for that ammo type and you are used to it shooting that way.
But you also have (for example) some hornady tap for SHTF. That's not ammo the typical person would shoot everyday (atleast me) because it's pretty expensive.
So a perp breaks into your house and you throw in a mag of Defensive loads and take aim at your target, is your rifle's point of impact going to be where you want it to be or is this close range scenario insignificant?
I've read on here that guys have had significant point of impact changes (up to 8") at 100 yards if i remember correctly, with certain defensive rounds as opposed to their range rounds. My rifle's Irons are set for 100yards but if I aim Off-hand at 25 yards they basically hit the center of the target.
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|August 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM||#19|
Join Date: Aug 2009
LoneStarWings Yes I have allready read only good things about the tap ammo., but I still think that using an 308 win round for sd isn't the best choice. It would work but a shotgun or an handgun would be better. But pump action shotguns are outlawed here in austria and semi auto shotguns are way too expensiv for budget. The only viable option would be an double barreled 12 gauge coach gun. I think it would be no problem to get some speciality rounds suitable for defense, but they are very epensive.. I will stick with m1a to range and buy an double barreld coach gun for sd, or mabyby an used 9mm pistol.
|August 2nd, 2009, 07:03 PM||#20|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
|August 3rd, 2009, 11:47 AM||#21|
Join Date: Mar 2009
Had to comment
I agree with the Hornady TAP 110 gr in regard to not blowing through multiple walls as it is designed for SWAT snipers and according to Hornady's own documentation if a sniper took a head shot the fragments coming out the other side would not be lethal . I of course do not wish to be behind someone who's head just got vaporized to find out, but that's what they say (and I am speaking of the LEO rounds that I have, but I assume the FPD is similar).
Anyway I keep two 20 rd mags with this in my safe door just for S&G. BUT...the Hornady research from their law enforcement web page stated that the author's friend, a deer hunter of many years, intentionally shot a buck in the shoulder wondering if the 110 would just come apart on the bone. Well it took out the shoulder and all the vitals behind it and he stated it did not take so much as one step; just fell.
Now put yourself in court and you were defending your life etc. and then they bring in exhibit-A also known as the M1A and are you kidding me? Defending my life with my SOCOM II is certainly an option if that's all I had; but with the vert grip short barrel quad rail and so forth it is a formidable looking weapon and I doubt a jury of my peers would think I was anything but looney if I used it for personal defense. Me, I keep my Glock .40 on the night stand. Not to mention the fact that shooting a person with a .308 is going to be extreme on the results piece of it. Maybe not any uglier than a 12 ga but ugly with a capital ug just the same. My .02 is that in the home for burglar duty it would sure do the job but excessively so.
|August 6th, 2009, 03:52 PM||#22|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Thx again for your answer. It would be possible to get the 110 tap rounds but they are very expensive. So I will buy the m1a only for target shooting, I have allready ordered one, it should arive next month and for sd I will buy an nice used glock 23 at a very good price.
@all Thanks for the help.
|August 8th, 2009, 12:06 AM||#24|
Join Date: Feb 2007
I keep an M1A Standard for home defense.
It has a Streamlight TLR-1 on the left side of the stock and the mag is loaded with 110 gr. Hornady TAP.
I tested four different rounds one day. Canadian 147 gr FMJ was 4" high at 100 yards, Win 150 gr SPs were 4" high also, Federal Powershok 150 gr SPs were 3" high, and 110 gr Hornady Tap was 6" high (no lateral shift). So that's only a 2" difference between Canadian 147 gr FMJ and 110 gr TAP. I'm not too worried about overpenetration because I think the bullet will break-up pretty easily.
Not too worried about the noise either. It'll be extremely loud but it's not like I shoot it indoors without hearing protection every day or something.
Es ist ein schönes Gewehr, ja?
|August 8th, 2009, 06:12 PM||#25|
Join Date: Nov 2008
A couple thoughts I had about your situation....
Your in Austria, uhhhh glock should be a viable SD weapon and available.
CZ is also pretty close and thanks to "open borders" available.
Remember buildings are diff in Europe.... most houses rural and urban are 60%+ concrete. Penetration isnt nearly the issue as here in the land of stick structures.
|August 8th, 2009, 06:42 PM||#26|
Join Date: Aug 2005
I count on my M14's for home/farm defense along with a variety of other weapons I have on hand...M1's, AR's, M870's, 1911's, S&W revolvers. etc....I would feel well armed with my 1903A3 as well.
|August 9th, 2009, 05:45 AM||#27|
Join Date: Dec 2006
I think for self defense in a home the best setup would be a pistol with light no matter where you lived.
Its easy to move around which means you are more likely to keep it with you rather than having to get it during a time of need.
If you find yourself in a situation where you need the qualities of a rifle to defend yourself, I would hope you would have additional and/or better preparations besides a rifle.
|August 9th, 2009, 07:30 PM||#28|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Well I keep my SOCOM 16 loaded up with a 20 round mag of hunting rounds. Mainly because I travel up to my friend's ranch a lot and there are many nasty hogs up there.
Is it my HD weapon? No. I keep my G21 near me for that. That being said if there was situation where I needed my rifle it is there. I think having to use my rifle would be due a SHTF senario. Hopefully I'll never have anything that bad happen. But it IS comforting to know its near by. I live in a residential area and I'd be worried of the round going where I dont want it to go.
Also moving around the house with my rifle is not ideal. Too many narrow halls, etc. A pistol allows me to move around better.
|August 11th, 2009, 10:32 AM||#29|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston, MA
One thing you should keep in mind is the Lethal Force laws where you live. For instance, here in Massachusetts these laws are very strict, and it's common belief that if you ever need to use a firearm in self defense, you're going to be thoroughly investigated and likely prosecuted after the fact. Therefore, you need to take into consideration the "defendability" your choice of self defense firearm.
There are some people who choose to keep M4 clone AR-15s with special optics, lights, lasers and lots of 30 round magazines as their home defense rifle. When a prosecutor holds this kind of a rifle up to an uneducated judge and jury, it's going to make him look like a nut (and personally, I think people who keep these kinds of rifles under their bed for self defense are a little nuts).
I find it a little odd that pump action shotguns are illegal whereas semi auto versions are not, and that a semi auto shotgun is more expensive than an M14. But regardless, I think you're far better off with some form of shotgun or just a good ol' fashion .38 revolver rather than a 10 foot long battle rifle. But that's just my two cents…
|August 11th, 2009, 08:39 PM||#30|
Join Date: Feb 2007
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