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XM21 fitment issue in EBR

This is a discussion on XM21 fitment issue in EBR within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by nf1e Don't see what you find wrong with the response. Folks have had the same fitment issue with all makers of forged ...


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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nf1e View Post
Don't see what you find wrong with the response. Folks have had the same fitment issue with all makers of forged receivers going into a SAGE. Rubber mallet is used nowadays to replace the wooden or leather mallet that was used for fitment on USGI M1s and M14s into the stock and also to close the trigger guard. Common procedure used to keep things tight.

Iím well aware of how a mallet is to be used. Itís not exactly a precision tool like some may choose to use it. Also, shy of grinding the receiver or the sage chassis this thing is not going to fit. Both options are unacceptable IMO for what Iím looking to do. Furthermore I posted this originally because Iíve literally never had a fitment issue of this kind with any other SA receiver into this exact chassis. All Iíve ever read or heard of BULA are high praises and how wonderful their stuff is. Never have owned any of their stuff I wasnít too impressed with this particular issue or response. Thatís pretty much it. No more no less. So to be lectured on how a mallet is to be used or why I have it all wrong because I wonít side with gridding or beating something into place is ridiculous to me.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:23 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by XM25Ren View Post
Would they not accept a return? Did you ask them about a warranty?

REN

Nothing of the sort. What you read in my response thread is what they sent me. Basically grind it or bash it. Haha .. I was hoping they would say
ďSend it in we will grind it or bash it for youĒ and send it back. They didnít offer any solution other than that. Let me be clear too, I donít want anything ďgivenĒ to me either just stand behind your stuff is all I ask. Thatís a rare thing now a days. Ehh... life goes on but all that being said, when every other SA receiver has worked or works I have a hard time with being told itís the ďknown SAGE chassis issueĒ response. I call BS

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TheMexican View Post
Iím well aware of how a mallet is to be used. Itís not exactly a precision tool like some may choose to use it. Also, shy of grinding the receiver or the sage chassis this thing is not going to fit. Both options are unacceptable IMO for what Iím looking to do. Furthermore I posted this originally because Iíve literally never had a fitment issue of this kind with any other SA receiver into this exact chassis. All Iíve ever read or heard of BULA are high praises and how wonderful their stuff is. Never have owned any of their stuff I wasnít too impressed with this particular issue or response. Thatís pretty much it. No more no less. So to be lectured on how a mallet is to be used or why I have it all wrong because I wonít side with gridding or beating something into place is ridiculous to me.
Wow, simply making suggestions from a different point of view, there is no lecturing going on at all. Relaying what others on the forum have done with fitting different brands of receivers to a SAGE and worked for them is certainly not ridiculous by any stretch. We are here to help only.
I would suggest you contact either TonyBen or Ted Brown and see what they might have for suggestions.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:27 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by nf1e View Post
Wow, simply making suggestions from a different point of view, there is no lecturing going on at all. Relaying what others on the forum have done with fitting different brands of receivers to a SAGE and worked for them is certainly not ridiculous by any stretch. We are here to help only.
I would suggest you contact either TonyBen or Ted Brown and see what they might have for suggestions.

Iíll do that. Thanks.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:36 AM   #20
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I’ve fit quite a few of these receivers to the SAGE chassis. I prefer that it’s too tight. It allows me to remove some material off the SAGE to fit the receiver perfectly with a snug fit. A tight fit means better accuracy on the firing line. It takes 15 minutes with a hand file once you know what you’re doing.

In its current state, no amount of hammering with a rubber mallet will seat it. When I’m done, a rubber mallet will get it to seat and it takes a rubber mallet to remove. It’s not convenient, but it’s ideal for accuracy.

Tony.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:43 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheMexican View Post
Nothing of the sort. What you read in my response thread is what they sent me. Basically grind it or bash it. Haha .. I was hoping they would say
ďSend it in we will grind it or bash it for youĒ and send it back. They didnít offer any solution other than that. Let me be clear too, I donít want anything ďgivenĒ to me either just stand behind your stuff is all I ask. Thatís a rare thing now a days. Ehh... life goes on but all that being said, when every other SA receiver has worked or works I have a hard time with being told itís the ďknown SAGE chassis issueĒ response. I call BS
Well that truly is a shame to hear, I guess there is no Bula warranty. It was pointed out to me, that my GunWorks of Lower Alabama receivers have no warranty because of the company being out of business.

It seems to me, in business or not has no bearing if a company still in business won't back their products.

Just an observation.

REN

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:46 AM   #22
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It doesn't seem like the OP wants to modify the stock because he uses other receivers with it. If the this receiver will be in the stock permanently, the a stock modification is the way to go. If he wants to drop in another receiver, then the receiver will have to be modified a little at a time. I'd get some calipers and compare the other receiver dimensions to this one to get an idea of where to take some material off.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:56 AM   #23
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I checked with my friend who had the same issue.

He had the barreled action for over a year before finding a SAGE chassis in FDE, so he didn't even think about contacting BULA.

He didn't take any pictures. I told him to take a few if he ever breaks the rifle down for cleaning, which is not likely in our lifetimes.

He also didn't check with me before grinding. I would have suggested modifying the receiver, if possible. The SAGE chassis is designed for numerous applications. The Bula XM-21 is designed to compliment the SAGE rail.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 08:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by deuceguy View Post
It doesn't seem like the OP wants to modify the stock because he uses other receivers with it. If the this receiver will be in the stock permanently, the a stock modification is the way to go. If he wants to drop in another receiver, then the receiver will have to be modified a little at a time. I'd get some calipers and compare the other receiver dimensions to this one to get an idea of where to take some material off.

Exactly right. I tinker with different setups here and there so modifying a perfectly fine SAGE chassis to accommodate the BULA receiver isnít an option. Plus I didnít want to just go and start grinding on the receiver and have an issue down the road that they can say ďwell this has been modified ďso you have no warranty. At this point it seems like itís common to tell customers to grind their stuff to fit EBR so they canít hold it against me. Iím having a hard time wrapping my head around how this is common practice for this particular situation as a remedy. But hey.... itís not the end of the world just a receiver.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 08:30 AM   #25
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An option to consider

I have been following this thread and don't want to get into BULA vs. other receiver tolerance debate; however, I have worked with enough stocks over the years to know stock fitting issues are just an issue with the M14 platform. There is variability in many M14 receivers.

Based on the OP's response he does not want to make adjustments to this Sage Chassis so the logical thing to do is get the receiver legs in spec.

Below are a few shots of how the receiver legs are ground to ensure a perfect fit with the Bookfield stock liner. When reviewing other posts in the XM25 build thread there was discussion that the grinding procedure to ensure perfect fit with the brookfield liner also also brings the receiver legs into perfect spec as they were intended to be built. Further discussions indicated that once the grinding procedure was done that the receiver could be used in any stock [not just the Brookfield Liner] as it would fully be in spec after the procedure.

So I am wondering if the BULA receiver was sent to Brookfield and was ground, might this fix the fit for the Sage chassis while also allowing the receiver to be used in any other stock all while not making any modifications to the sage chassis. I realize this would be a an additional fee for the OP, but it may be worth the $40 -$50 bucks which could be a good solution.

Just a thought to consider.


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============================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLER BOLT View Post
:Looks ground not polished.
You, Sir are correct.

This is Mitch's setup or grinding the legs to spec.



As a follow-up to Ren's post re the fitting of the liner to the receiver, here's some fyi info.

With each of these new BPT liners, Mitch includes installation instructions and an offer to fit the commercial M1A receiver legs to the BPT stock liner, so I won't go into details other than say he had a dedicated jig for this process. For anyone interested with the new BPT liners, here's the machining work that Mitch performed on my SAI receiver legs this month. My assumption is that this will ensure the mating surfaces of the rear legs are truly parallel to the BPT XM25 liner's legs (3 degree angled area), hence a proper, tight fit.

Back of SAI receiver legs (note the precision grounded surfaces. They almost look like a polished surface):


View #2 of same area (note the precision grounded surfaces):


Work is not visible when the receiver and liner are mated together:


Turn around was very quick (less than two weeks. I mailed him my stripped receiver and a $50 USPS money order). I can't answer any questions re this process or its applicability to various receivers. What I have shown is all that I know, but I hope this is helpful nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hytekrednek View Post
Sweeney, can you tell me if I have a receiver's legs ground by Mitch, will it still fit a gi stock liner properly? or will it fit better? or only ever fit a BPT liner from now on? Thanks. I have read that many commercial receivers are out of spec here, I was wondering if having that work done would be beneficial for non xm25 builds too.
I think I can answer that.
As I understand that they are brought into USGI specs,
so yes, beneficial, should fit any USGI stock wood or plastic as a drop in.
One of the most important surfaces and they were left as raw casting, why???.
Ever see a SAI build with the heel up in the air???
That is because the legs would not seat in the liner properly, and they did not bother resolving the problem.
They do the same with the Oprod take down notch..


Last edited by M1Army; May 19th, 2020 at 09:00 AM.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 08:32 AM   #26
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https://imgur.com/gallery/MqTb6E9

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Old May 19th, 2020, 08:56 AM   #27
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M1 Army.. Iíd be more than willing to send it to them to have it fixed. Iím going to look your post over at home Iím on Tapatalk App at the moment. Iím with you, this isnít a bash anyone thread just a thread about how to fix it without bend to fit paint to match mentality. Thanks!

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Old May 19th, 2020, 11:07 AM   #28
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Receiver legs can move during heat treatment because of the D cuts.If the datum target spec is toward the max spec and the legs move .Doesn't take much.

Takes just a few minutes to check this when you have tools to do so.

Leg width is .852" -.003"" located .890" off the heel deck.

Surface grinding to true surfaces together and at correct angle is a blueprinting process and perfect solution.

You could actually custom fit it so its perfectly married to that stock.

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Old May 19th, 2020, 11:15 AM   #29
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I had the same issue when I put a Bula barreled action into an older Sage chassis. I had to file on the legs, cold blued those edges and then used a block of wood and a big hammer to get it to fit. Trigger group fits tight. Not sure I will ever take this rifle out of this chassis. Here is a link to my thread on the build. https://m14forum.com/modern-m14/5046...14-ebr-ri.html
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Old May 26th, 2020, 04:13 PM   #30
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I also have a Bula XM 21 in an EBR chassis but mine was just a straight drop in after changing out the guide block. This was also true of another Fed Ord M14 that I also installed in a EBR chassis.

Nelson

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