This is a discussion on M14 to pistol transitions within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Hey guys , let's talk about transitions rifle to pistol. What would you choose as a package if you select M14 as a rifle and ...
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|April 8th, 2020, 04:36 AM||#1|
Join Date: Dec 2017
M14 to pistol transitions
Hey guys , let's talk about transitions rifle to pistol.
What would you choose as a package if you select M14 as a rifle and switch to pistol as backup or secondary weapon while the M14 is out of ammo.
What type of stock or chassis?
what type of sling ?
What pistol ?
While we have many type of commercial stocks In your opinion which one is capable to change the mag faster than the other?
|April 8th, 2020, 05:50 AM||#2|
Join Date: Oct 2014
I think the sling is the most important factor. You can't beat a modern 1 point or 2 point sling for transitions, since you wear the sling even when shooting. So you can drop the rifle and go for your pistol without having to fumble around to sling it. Since the M14 is long and heavy, I prefer a 2 point because it keeps the rifle tighter on my body when not held. A 1 point hangs on your neck, which starts to suck quickly with a 10+ pound rifle. A 2 point puts the weight on your shoulders.
For a stock, I have an E2 stock that I set up with a modern 2 point sling and it works very well for me. I used an M16A2 buttstock adapter - basically a strap around the buttstock that clips to the original sling swivel - to adapt the stock for a modern 2 point sling. You could do the same to an original M14 stock. Most of the modern chassis systems can take a modern 2 point sling with the right hardware. So you can use almost any stock. I prefer a pistol grip stock for this style of carry.
As for a pistol, ideally you want light since the M14 is heavy and the pistol is only a backup weapon. Any good quality polymer pistol would fit the bill. I personally would prefer a compact or service pistol so that I can get my full hand on the grip. Here I break my own rule, because my go-to pistols are a SIG P226 in .357 SIG and a CZ P-01 in 9mm. I don't own a polymer pistol. I would probably choose the CZ because it is lighter.
I have only used the standard and the E2 stocks, so I won't comment on whether any stock is faster for mag changes. I will say that I think the mag change is a matter of practice with the stock you have.
|April 8th, 2020, 07:27 AM||#3|
Join Date: Sep 2014
I also don't believe that needing to transition to a secondary weapon because the primary weapon has run dry is all that likely. It is a rare situation where you have expended 20 rounds and can't take the time to do a speed reload of your primary weapon. This is especially true if you are behind cover. If you have expended 20 rounds, at that point you better be behind cover. Where a transition to a secondary weapon is most likely is if you encounter a stoppage on your primary weapon. You might not have enough time to clear the stoppage and then going to your secondary is possibly the best course of action. Keep in mind that outside of special operations personnel, most troops don't carry a secondary weapon. All these guys and girls rely solely on their one and only weapon.
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|April 8th, 2020, 07:28 AM||#4|
No social life
Join Date: Oct 2008
In order to transition from rifle to a pistol, my range requires that you...
Clear the rifle, insert a chamber flag, then place the rifle in the appropriate size rack, muzzle up. You can then uncase your handgun.
You will never be able to reload or transition the way you can with an M4. The weight and ergonomics of the M14 platform just aren't designed for it. Service rifles are intended to be part of a Fire Team, where the Rifleman to your side provides covering fire while you execute a reload.
That being said, with practice, it is possible to execute a relatively quick magazine change with an M14 (especially if you don't mind discarding the empty magazine).
As for the pistol, I recommend one that you are proficient with using just one hand.
Last edited by KurtC; April 8th, 2020 at 08:08 AM.
|April 8th, 2020, 08:45 AM||#5|
Join Date: Aug 2004
I've worked extensively to transition from my duty AR to my sidearm. Why? Failures and immediate action drills. You will react as you've trained.
I run a Boonie Packer Redimag on my duty AR so reloads are handled pretty efficiently. It's the FTF's and FTE's that are game changers and make the transition to a sidearm necessary to stay in the fight.
My working M14 uses a Choate folding stock with AK style QD sling attachments at the pivot point and at the fore end.
I've tried various slings, 1 point, 2 point and 3 point. Single point sucks if you have to run but can be swung over your shoulder if you need to cuff a suspect. 2 points have a lot of advantages both for mobility and getting the gun out of the way for close in work. I like the 3 point for stability but it keeps the gun on your front and can be unworkable at times.
Really it's just finding what works for you and then train, train, train.
|April 8th, 2020, 06:14 PM||#7|
Join Date: Feb 2018
I've tried and trained with several single and 2 point slings.
I've also carried farther than most "with a loaded single point". Somebody with Several tours might have more time, but most of those were running issued 2 points that I've known.
Spent several years as a Bear Guard carrying a tricked out 11-87 Police on a Chalker sling. No one here has mentioned these yet, they're not quite the same animal as other single points. One of my SWAT buddies turned me onto the Chalker years ago.
Full harness loads the entire upper back.
Anchor point in the center, makes it the smoothest and quickest transition from Left to Right.
Fastest exit from the rifle as you pull the Snap shackle...handy for CQB.
More comfy than a 2 point over the long haul as a 2 point just loads the same strap line all day. Again this has lots of surface area.
The only downfall is running without bracing the gun and probably climbing a ladder, but I could work it out if I had too.
During transitions with this sling, you just engage the rifle safety(if you can) and guide it to the side with the support hand as you start the draw.
People that keep talking about nutting themselves, need to learn that you don't drop the rifle, you park the rifle... I think this is the look you make when you drop it.
M14 would be best with a shorter chassis and barrel, if you were planning on transitions.
|April 9th, 2020, 04:36 PM||#11|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Gentlemen, the Chalker sling is still a single point sling and very few tactical shooters use single point slings anymore. You can push the rifle aside as part of the transition or whatever other evolution you are performing but it won't stay there. It will eventually submit to gravity and hang straight down - between your legs. That is a real problem when moving fast. I also want something that is simple. A harness as used on the Chalker sling isn't simple and adds clutter when used with a chest rig or H harness straps. Now add rucksack straps and it is even worse. I favor the Vickers (Blue Force) sling as used currently by the Marine Corps. If you don't like a bare strap, they sell a model with a padded strap.
|April 13th, 2020, 01:37 PM||#12|
Join Date: Oct 2014
I don't think your ever going to get a true 1 answer fits all kind of deal, personally, I like the 1 point sling (over right shoulder underneath my left arm pit), if I had the choice I would go for max ammo, which I really like my Springfield XD 9mm (fully size), 17 shots with 1 in barrel, I have the socom 16 so that might be different for some, but it's the setup I liked.