This is a discussion on M14 muzzle devices. within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Regarding muzzle devices and accuracy: I can't speak for my M1a's, as I have only used regular N.M. type flash hiders on them. However, on ...
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|May 4th, 2020, 02:53 PM||#16|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Regarding muzzle devices and accuracy:
I can't speak for my M1a's, as I have only used regular N.M. type flash hiders on them. However, on two of my three 6.5 Grendel AR's, I get my best accuracy with A2 style flash hiders. The other one likes the VG6 Gamma. I don't use crush washers. I use the Accu-washer system with locktite and minimal torque.I had a Monster flash hider/brake on one and couldn't get less than 6"-8" groups until I put an A2 hider on. I'm thinking of just using thread protectors.
I think that whatever gets hung on a muzzle has an effect on accuracy to some extent. I saw a video some time back where a team was tuning their bbl. harmonics by turning their A1 style flash hider a small amount in or out and locking with a lock nut.
I still want to try a Coast Guard (?) type, they look to be effective and still "traditional".
|May 4th, 2020, 09:24 PM||#17|
Join Date: May 2010
All I have used were USGI or Surefire. With the Surefire front sight options a very limited. Why Surefire, because I have a LEO friend who has a device that cuts the noise down.
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|May 6th, 2020, 07:14 AM||#20|
Dodgin' The Reaper
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fairfax, VA
It is easier for my 71 year old eyes to see than a stand M14 sight.
|May 6th, 2020, 09:12 AM||#21|
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Murrieta, DPRKommiefornia
Art, I've been using the SEI NM brake NM brake that's the same dimension as the M14 standard length f/h. The SEI version is a chunk of steel, weighing more then the standard f/h. I found that the SEI NM version is a little better at dampening recoil and for faster follow up shots.
I adjusted dwell and slowed down the op-rod, so the recoil pulse is felt less, and the brass is dropped a foot away from my right elbow at the 3 o'clock position. No chasing brass at 1-2 o'clock, 8 feet away in front of your bench at the range, or waiting for a line-break to collect your brass at the range.
The other reason and only reason I use a brake is because I live in The Peoples Democratic Republic of Kommifornia, and the dik-taters here have proclaimed the M14 f/h as one of those "evil" features that make a rifle a "terrorist rifle"!!! I know, pretty stupid eh??? -Lloyd
|May 6th, 2020, 10:11 AM||#22|
Join Date: Jul 2007
I have hung various different muzzle devices on dozens of M14 barrels, and yes, in my experience, a muzzle device can effect accuracy. BUT, it is difficult to seperate all the different factors involved in my experiments.
1.) The M14 barrel is definitely sensitive to HARMONICS. Adding or removing any weight on the end of the M14 barrel will effect the harmonics. Even adjusting the location of the weight in or out along the barrel can effect harmonics. This is the principle behind the Browning BOSS accurizer system, and other similar devices.
2.) Dampening the HARMONIC RESONANCE can minimise barrel vibrations, which THEORETICALLY can improve OVER ALL accuracy.
3.) OR, making the barrel vibrations more CONSISTENT at the precise time the bullet leaves the muzzle, can improve accuracy FOR A SPECIFIC LOAD.
4.) I have installed very few muzzle devices on conventional 22" M14 barrels. I prefer shorter barrels on my M14 rifles, and IMHO, many of the inaccuracies found with the 22" barreled M14s can be traced to LOOSE connections between the barrel and the muzzle device. For the 22" barreled M14s, my favorite was the DLASK ARMS muzzle brake. It mitigated recoil and muzzle lift quite well, and the before and after installation testing I did showed no degradation in accuracy.
5.) I prefer shorter barrels on my M14 rifles, mostly for better balance and faster handling. However, IN THEORY, shortening a barrel will make it stiffer and decrease vibration, which should improve accuracy. IN THEORY!
I have used 18.6" to 20" shortened barrels on many of my M14 builds, and have noticed improved accuracy in several cases after chopping the barrels. HOWEVER, I can not definitively say these improvements in accuracy were due exclusively to the shorter barrels. In many cases, removing the end of the barrel, (with possibly worn lands from too much cleaning rod contact, or recrowning a nicked barrel end, ) might have been responsible for the improvements.
6.) Threading the shortened barrel on an M14 for a muzzle device is a compromise. Ideally, a 5/8" thread is commonly used for a .30 calibre bore. But on a shortened M14 barrel, there is not enough barrel diameter for this. So most of my shortened barrels were threaded 1/2×28 TPI, which is coincidentally, the thread used with the AR15. This allows the installation of a wide variety of AR oriented muzzle devices.
7.) Using a shortened 18.75" barrel threaded to 1/2" x28 became my foundation for designing the M14.CA muzzle device. I did extensive R&D and real world range testing to come up with this design. Recoil, muzzle flip, re-direction of muzzle blast away from the shooter, and ACCURACY, were all considered critical parameters I juggled, to get the "FEEL" I liked the best.
8.) The BLACKFEATHER ALLOY CHASSIS SYSTEM was NOT designed primarily for accuracy. We emohasised improved ergonomics, balance, faster handling and, admittedly, TACTICOOL LOOKS. The well proven accuracy potential was a serendipitous bonus. That being said, the testing for accuracy with the M14.CA BLACKFEATHER ALLOY CHASSIS SYSTEM was extensive. We shot more than 1000 rds under controlled conditions. MOA groups were obtained during this testing. And also, in follow up range sessions with a few different short barreled M14.CA muzzle device equipped rifles, the MOA potential was confirmed as possible.
my favorite M14 type rifle will have a shortened 18.75" barrel,
an M14.CA muzzle device, and,
DEPENDING ON TOO MANY OTHER FACTORS TO MENTION HERE,
will be ACCURATE ENOUGH.
In the REAL WORLD,
the barrel and muzzle device are only two factors in the accuracy equation. Important factors indeed, however in my personal accuracy experiments, I found the BLACKFEATHER chassis, with the "half assed free floating barrel tensioning" design, to be much more effective in extracting accuracy. Most of our BF accuracy testing was done with CHINESE M14 rifles, with their standard weight CHEAP CHINESE BARRELS.
Ammunition selection and proper bedding and barrel to forearm tension, were found to be much more critical than the barrel. In fact, AMMUNITION is the most important variable we found in M14 Accuracy. As an example, one of our first MOA groups was with the cheapest CHINESE 7.62 NATO BALL MACHINE GUN ammunition, which we de-linked and sorted by OAL. Find the ammo YOUR individual M14 rifle likes best, and you have found the most cost effective accuracy enhancement available.
These are my personal opinions,
based on my personal experience.
Last edited by Lazerus2000; May 6th, 2020 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Spelling
|May 6th, 2020, 10:22 AM||#23|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sutherlin, OR
When I acquired my H&R M14 post sample, it was all original except that the barrel had been shortened to 16" and a Fabian Brothers brake was installed. I had intended to replace the barrel and restore to stock condition, but then I test fired it. That Fabian Brothers brake is the best I have ever used. Have also tried the SEI brake, and found it was slightly less effective at reducing muzzle rise than the FB unit. I wish those Fabian Brothers guys would get back into the brake business, but I got no response when I sent a note to them requesting they produce the M14 brake again. Now I think their website is inactive. I'll have to get the H&R out of the safe and get some pics to show what it looks like.
|May 6th, 2020, 10:29 AM||#24|
Dodgin' The Reaper
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Jacksonville, OR
I have found that, from an accuracy standpoint, the NM reamed standard flash suppressor is the least detrimental. Some muzzle breaks are very detrimental...
|May 6th, 2020, 10:53 AM||#25|
Join Date: Jul 2007
NOTE: Canada gas a Chines imprt model with an factory 18.6" barrel and a conventipnal M14 splined muzzle device arrachment. DLASK ARMS will retjread the muzzle to take 1/2"×28 TPI devices.
There is also a CHINESE 18.6" SOCOM CLONE,with a METRIC threaded muzxle and a muzzle device than can be installed around the barrel, or extendingbout from it.
Tje top pic shows the original in the white final prototype M14.CA Short Muzle Brake.
The bottom pic shows a simple FREE mod with the standard flash hider cut back to just four short fingers.
Last edited by Lazerus2000; May 6th, 2020 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Add pic
|May 6th, 2020, 01:19 PM||#26|
No social life
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New Preston,CT
LRB brake works very well and accuracy is superb. Just installed this one on a new rifle with a LRB 18.5 1-10 medium weight barrel. Shouldn't be much harmonics to deal with. Hoping to function fire in the next couple of days.
|May 6th, 2020, 03:26 PM||#27|
Join Date: Jul 2007
MORE muzzle device options, especially for shorties.
I have been shortifying the M14 rifles since the 1980s, when I wanted a M1A BUSH rifle, but discovered they only came with 18" barrels, which were not legal in Canada. That M1A had been "ridden hard and pulled up wet", shot with corrosive ammo, then stored away for a few years until I rescued it. Once I cleaned the bore, and got the gas system un-clogged, it was a nicely functioning rifle, BUT, most of the rifling came out with the bore fouling when I had cleaned it. The last few inches near the muzzle were gone Gone, GONE.
The perfect candidate for my Weird Science M14 experiments. I cut the worn out ( NOT chrome lined ) M1A barrel and shrank the length down to 18.75". Then I started looking at front sight/ muzzle attachment options. My first few shorties used modified MINI 14 front sight/Flash hiders from CHOATE. They looked great, but the muzzle flash was the size of a 5 gal pail. then I started threading the barrels to match the AR 15 muzzle devices. They worked better, but required an independent front sight base. One of my favorites here was the YHM two chamber design, which actually provided significant muzzle flip reduction. Eventually, I started cutting down the original M14 flash hiders, REVERSED them, threaded internally to 1/2x28, with the short cut off stub threaded externally to the same. Basically, I had duplicated the M14 sight, with a short stop at the end to insatall standard AR 15 threaded muzzle accessories.
Finally I created the M14.CA two piece front sight/muzzle device, which is about as good as it got for me.
Here a few pictures with a few different muzzle device treatments. Remember, some of these are almost 40 years old.