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Bedding with coat hanger and tapping rear lug ~

This is a discussion on Bedding with coat hanger and tapping rear lug ~ within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; A very good writeup, and excellent photos!...


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Old November 11th, 2017, 02:50 AM   #16
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A very good writeup, and excellent photos!

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Old November 11th, 2017, 04:33 AM   #17
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Excelllent Post..

It is always interesting to see and learn how others' go about bedding their rifle, no two seem to do it alike..

The pillar job is of particular interest to me, too often folks do not advance the pillar to butt agianst the bottom of the lug leaving a thin layier of bedding material between the two, which really is not pillar bedded..

Another point of interest is the complete bottom surface of the reciever contacting the stock. This method proved to be less accurate then leaing a no contact from the rear of the rec. legs to the front edge of the rear lug.. With the rear screw you may not lose accuracy, but if you are not satisfied try cutting the excess bedding out.. We removed any bedding at the front of the rear lug, did not want any counter- recoil surface there..

Please accept my comments as suggestions not criticism, you did a super job... Art

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Old November 11th, 2017, 05:09 AM   #18
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GREAT TUTORIAL, Very well done and easy to follow. Thanks MUCH.
I have one question regarding the coat hanger. You used one to test fit everything in the beginning, then stated you used a new one for the actual bedding process. For this 2nd one, do you pre-bend it into the V shape, or do you install is as a straight piece then let it bend as you pulled the action down and clamp?

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Old November 11th, 2017, 06:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1sniper View Post
GREAT TUTORIAL, Very well done and easy to follow. Thanks MUCH.
I have one question regarding the coat hanger. You used one to test fit everything in the beginning, then stated you used a new one for the actual bedding process. For this 2nd one, do you pre-bend it into the V shape, or do you install is as a straight piece then let it bend as you pulled the action down and clamp?

I put some bend in it so it kind of stays in place.....

If you leave it straight it wants to roll around and get away from you and harder to keep it where you want it.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 06:38 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by art luppino View Post
It is always interesting to see and learn how others' go about bedding their rifle, no two seem to do it alike..

The pillar job is of particular interest to me, too often folks do not advance the pillar to butt agianst the bottom of the lug leaving a thin layier of bedding material between the two, which really is not pillar bedded..

Another point of interest is the complete bottom surface of the reciever contacting the stock. This method proved to be less accurate then leaing a no contact from the rear of the rec. legs to the front edge of the rear lug.. With the rear screw you may not lose accuracy, but if you are not satisfied try cutting the excess bedding out.. We removed any bedding at the front of the rear lug, did not want any counter- recoil surface there..

Please accept my comments as suggestions not criticism, you did a super job... Art


I called mine a "pillar" but its really a bushing for the action screw and the rear action lug is sitting on solid Devcon hopefully with no induced twist or strange torque loading. The barrel tension is the odd variable in the M14 platform....

I will keep relieving it in mind and its easier to take off material than putting it back!

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Old November 11th, 2017, 07:06 AM   #21
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the pillar

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Originally Posted by jkh62 View Post
I called mine a "pillar" but its really a bushing for the action screw and the rear action lug is sitting on solid Devcon hopefully with no induced twist or strange torque loading. The barrel tension is the odd variable in the M14 platform....

I will keep relieving it in mind and its easier to take off material than putting it back!

In the picture it looks like the pillar goes all the way up to the lug, pictures can fool us..

Since your are not offended, here is something else, the screw and how it seats in the pillar can make a big difference maintaining torque.

An excellent way to assure a more constant torque is to use a counter sink on the pillar and match that with a like taper on the contact surface of the screw.. I knew the angle of the drill tip used and just matched that.. Plus I would lap the screw into it's seat.. That screw stayed with that rifle.. This method secures the screw better than a flat seat.. Takes extra work, but you seem to have the proper equipment and skills to add this touch..

Your post is a clear message to all that have never tried this as to the amount of work involved, plus the proper equipment required. It would be very difficult to do all this and not be compensated for your labor..

Keep up the excellent work.

My best regards.

Art L.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 07:12 AM   #22
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WOW!
thanks

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Old November 11th, 2017, 08:22 AM   #23
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Great post and thank you for sharing I find these types of exchanges very informative. May I ask a few questions?
1. I didn't grasp the importance of using a second different wire when bedding vs setup. Could you elaborate?
2. What did you find to be the advantages of the wire method vs controlling the spacing right at the ferrule?
3. Was there any difficulty with setting up the wire to maintain the barrel center down the stock center?


Thanks again for taking time to document and share.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 09:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art luppino View Post
In the picture it looks like the pillar goes all the way up to the lug, pictures can fool us..

Since your are not offended, here is something else, the screw and how it seats in the pillar can make a big difference maintaining torque.

An excellent way to assure a more constant torque is to use a counter sink on the pillar and match that with a like taper on the contact surface of the screw.. I knew the angle of the drill tip used and just matched that.. Plus I would lap the screw into it's seat.. That screw stayed with that rifle.. This method secures the screw better than a flat seat.. Takes extra work, but you seem to have the proper equipment and skills to add this touch..

Your post is a clear message to all that have never tried this as to the amount of work involved, plus the proper equipment required. It would be very difficult to do all this and not be compensated for your labor..

Keep up the excellent work.

My best regards.

Art L.


The stainless steel bushing I machined actually fits the screw pretty close. I faced the bottom of the screw so its square with the bushing and left about .002" inch side clearance so its precise when inserted and no extra room. It feels great when you drop it in and torque it down.

You would never be able to line the threaded rear lug, bushing and screw without fitting them prior and securing in correct order.

I never considered the angular mating surface for contact / lock up.....
Nice tip !


Bedding a rifle is labor + material and waiting.

This gives people that have someone else bed their rifle an idea what is involved in the process.
Devcon is not that inexpensive anymore does not a long shelf life once opened.

I try to line up my bedding projects and use up all my material.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 10:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Humphrey View Post
Great post and thank you for sharing I find these types of exchanges very informative. May I ask a few questions?
1. I didn't grasp the importance of using a second different wire when bedding vs setup. Could you elaborate?
2. What did you find to be the advantages of the wire method vs controlling the spacing right at the ferrule?
3. Was there any difficulty with setting up the wire to maintain the barrel center down the stock center?


Thanks again for taking time to document and share.


Once you bend the wire ( between the stock and barrel ) the tension is gone if you separate the two.
If you try to re-use it the tension is different from a virgin / unbent wire.

I tried different diameters of wire to find one that had good tension by inserting them and pushing the action home. This can also be changed by changing the placement of the wire distance / from the ferrule.
Its why I put painters tape on the forearm and made a line with a sharpie to put it in the same spot once I was satisfied with it.

Using the wire the barrel really self centers.
I had WAY more issues using the old donut fixture that made contact with the ferule tips.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 11:08 AM   #26
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I have a new Mac stock that I’m going to have someone else bed. It came from McMillan with the front ferrule. I must have gotten lucky. Excellent post.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 12:55 PM   #27
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Using the Wire method..

The wire method is ready availabe, the donut fixture is more complicated to make and neither of them is my choice, that does not mean they will not do the job to some degree..

If you consider the two they both rely on different areas of the stock, this means the channel has to align with the ferrule or the ferule has to align with channel. That sounds convolute at first read, but consider what you are attemping to accomplish and why..

The objective is to align the front band \ lip to dead bottom of the stock furrel to produce a vertical center-line. A vertical center line when draw pressure is added pulls the barrel stright down, so the matching of the FB lip to the ferrule is of upmost importance. It determines the difference between an average shooting rifle and an excellent one..



That leaves the last and best choice, the stand-off devise. It can be made from almost any hard material in a half hour and used over many times.. To all that plan to try bedding take a few minutes and investigate the Stand Off Divise, it's simple and not costly... It takes the "Maybe" out...

Ever wonder why the late built Match M1's were so accurate and held up for so long, equilibrate.. Art

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Old November 11th, 2017, 12:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by art luppino View Post

That leaves the last and best choice, the stand-off devise. It can be made from almost any hard material in a half hour and used over many times.. To all that plan to try bedding take a few minutes and investigate the Stand Off Divise, it's simple and not costly... It takes the "Maybe" out...
Any pics of one to share ?

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Old November 11th, 2017, 01:05 PM   #29
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I will say Mac makes an excellent stock.

I have only bedded three of them two with standard GI barrels and one rear lug with the heavy barrel but all have been pretty damn straight as an arrow for the ferrule centerline and even height.

I still vaguely remember of some guys using Mac stocks as a drop in and shooting them without bedding material. One person at my local range was doing it as well trying to convince me I was wasting my time by bedding mine.

I just smile at him and refrain from saying what comes to mind.

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Old November 11th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #30
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Using the wire on wood stocks can leave dents in the stock, I am going to try using a piece of banding strap [the stuff you use to strap things to pallets] to apply the pressure on a walnut stock I am working on.

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