M14 Forum

RandyB45

My bad, brown water is considered land. That makes a certain amount of bureauRATic sense, I suppose.

If no one minds, I can post the relevant Monday notes from the SF Command liaison here as I receive them.

RAMMAC

That's a perfect example of why I was being specific about what boots on the ground means. There is always some legal term or local verbiage that the VA looks for and if the veteran doesn't use it then they are denied their rightful claim. While VA personnel should make the effort to obtain the specifics about your Naval service before making comments about your qualification for a claim some wont bother.

It is always advisable for the veteran to use the specific language that the VA uses in relation to your qualifications for a claim. Use the VA website and get familiar with the terminology they use in their written documents, specifically the language used in the CFR. It's easy to imagine some 70 year old VN vet coming in and saying

"Hey buddy, I'm a Navy vet and I hear that I can make a claim for Agent Orange illnesses."

The VA guy says;
"Well, if you had boots on the ground you can make the claim."

"Oh, I guess that leaves me out, I spent all my time on a boat."

Of course he doesn't mention that the boat was a river boat and the VA guy doesn't bother asking because he was in a hurry so the veteran goes home and says that the whole thing is just BS because he couldn't qualify.

RandyB45

That's why a good VSO is important. In my area the DAV is dreadful, useful only for van rides. Others have had better results. Don't be afraid to fire your VSO. You cannot have too many documents or too much detail. For example, buddy letters and the VA [form] 21-0781 are powerful documents for PTSD. The local VA didn't know that form existed and it's on their website. It's an all-round educational process and like any health care, you are your own best advocate. No, I don't work for the VA but I have worked with them on many things, in a position to make them pay attention.

I post on several forums and I say the same things there. We're all in this together. Sadly, many guys don't have the records, so it's a lot of work to prove it. Equally sadly, many vets are milking it. I have turned more than one faker over to the VA IG.

I haven't found the VA to hate veterans, but they are skilled bureauRATS. Their hands are tied by their verbiage. I tell guys to think of the VA process the same way they tried to skate on details/extra duty: Beat them at their own game. I know: I was a detail skatin' MOFO when I was young.

Persistence and patience are the keys. If you think this is bad, wait until you try for SS disability.... I can see that coming and I'm already getting ready.

I'll see if I have a list of sites/verbiage that the VA looks for on claims. We looked out for each other in combat: This is no different.

GardenValley

The State of New Jersey at one time had an Agent Orange Commission that researched the effects of dioxin. They did this because New Jersey had many former industrial areas where dioxin had been used and where the soil and ground water was contaminated. To conduct this study the Commission turned to DOD and obtained records for the Agent Orange spraying conducted in Vietnam and then correllated that data with unit deployments in those areas to determine which units had spent the most time in the most heavily sprayed areas. The results indicated this was the 9th Marines so the Commission actively recruited 9th Marines veterans to participate in the study. Their belief was that in studying persons known to have been subjected to high concentrations of Agent Orange they could more likely determine the long-term effects for those persons living in the contaminated areas of New Jersey.

Over a period of several years, the Commission brought veterans to New Jersey in groups of 12 vets for three days of medical, physiological, and psychological testing. I participated in the study in 1987. This was during the time the VA refused to consider Agent Orange exposure as having been hazardous. As it was explained to me at the time, the testing of blood samples for dioxin contamination was quite complicated and the only lab in the US capable of conducting the tests was the CDC lab in Atlanta. The CDC lab had previously performed the testing on the residents of Times Beach, Missouri which resulted in the EPA determining the town unfit for habitation and subsequently purchased the town and moved everyone out, but CDC would not perform the testing on blood samples of U.S. Marine veterans who had been sprayed with the same chemical. That caused the Commission to have to ship our blood samples by overnight air to a lab in Sweden where they were tested. This is a perfect example of one agency of the government totally denying that a problem exists, while another agency agrees that the very problem denied by other agency does in fact exist. It is a terribly frustrating situation and can only leave veterans wondering why it is that the vet is always the one who is discriminated against.

The results of my tests confirmed my exposure, but at that time over twenty years had elapsed since exposure and the dioxin levels had diminished to what was considered safe levels. Now, some twenty-five more years have elapsed since the study and I have had no known physical issues related to Agent Orange. I have since been tested by the VA and the conclusions regarding the dioxin levels were the same. I'm thankful I was able to participate in the New Jersey program as it provided me a great amount of info long before the VA agreed it was a problem.

RAMMAC

Unfortunately the secret is to do their job for them. When my anxiety disability (it was diagnosed, by military mental health specialists, while I was in service and I was being treated with counseling and meds while active duty, and it was all recorded in my med records) was denied I built a package that looked like a thesis for a PhD. It had a table of contents, an index, a listing of illustrations and then I referenced the VA's own requirements for the anxiety and addressed each qualifier. This was after I exhausted my appeals and they denied my claim of having new a material evidence. I finally got it along with my back pay but the bottom line is that I had to draw a picture for them before they realized that there was no way they could deny the claim.

The truth is, the mandates for quotas and points cause the VSRs to feel like they are behind the 8 ball all the time. My opinion is that the majority simply work to get their pay check and in order to get a pay check they have performance standards to meet. Their performance standards are based on the number and type of claims they work. They have two choices, either do the best they can for each veteran and take a chance that they wont meet their performance goals, which WILL get them fired, or just stamp a claim as denied, accumulate their performance points and keep their job. They justify stamping a claim as denied as being a reasonable alternative since the veteran can appeal the inappropriate decision, although it usually takes years to successfully appeal a denial. But this way the VA worker makes themselves feel OK with screwing us and they get to keep their job, after all, they do have a family to take care of. Congress has made things worse by sticking their nose in the mix and demanding that management account for turn around times. Management can only do that by recording numbers of records processed and that lead to a quota system. The quota system has become the focus of their efforts, not the veteran.

So if we build a package that allows them to easily identify what your claim is, what requirements must be met, and how you meet those requirements, you can push your case through a lot quicker and with a reasonable chance of being approved. If your information is based on their qualification standards then they will not waste their time on trying to disprove your claim, it is quicker and easier to just read your brief and go along with it.

RandyB45

From Monday's VA Notes:

Oxmix

This is a link to Joe Sipala's FaceBook page, Agent Orange Okinawa.

Like Vietnam, if you were on Okinawa, you were most likely exposed to Agent Orange. The Government is refusing to admit that it was even present on Okinawa. Those of us who were there know otherwise. Hopefully enough people will come forward with proof, so that we can get medical help and benefits for those who have health issues.

If any member here was on Okinawa in the 1960's and early 1970's and know about where it was stored, sprayed it, transported it, has pictures, documents or any proof what so ever, either post on FaceBook or contact Jon Mitchell:

jonwmitchell@gmail.com

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Agent-...05895316098692

http://www.jonmitchellinjapan.com/

Regards

Ox

RandyB45

Monday's notes: