M14 Forum

pepsi71ocean

So my buddy came back from overseas, and we were in target and ran into my boss who seems very quiet, and always has this blank stair on his face, he immediately said after we left that he has the 1,000 yard stair.

Im not sure what exactly he meant, but i do know he was in the service, has a slight limp and has that overall stature of a military man.

Anyone have an in site into this stair that ive heard so much about from vets?

Slice&Dice

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand-yard_stare

The thousand-yard stare or two-thousand-yard stare is a phrase originally coined to describe the limp, unfocused gaze of a battle-weary soldier. The stare is a characteristic of acute stress reaction, also known as combat stress reaction, which is related to post-traumatic stress disorder.

The despondent stare is a symptom displayed by victims who have succumbed to the shock of trauma by dissociation from it. The phrase originated from military circumstances, but it is a symptom of severe psychological distress that can occur anywhere, and is not unique to soldiers.
The thousand-yard stare and other combat stress reactions have been documented as far back as the ancient Greeks, and were described in Sophocles' tragedies Ajax and Philoctetes.[1] The phrase was popularized when, in 1944, Life magazine published the painting Marines Call It That 2,000 Yard Stare, by World War II artist and correspondent Tom Lea. The painting was a portrait of a young Marine at the Battle of Peleliu in 1944, and is now held by U.S. Army Center of Military History, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.

About the real-life Marine who was his subject, Lea said:

He left the States 31 months ago. He was wounded in his first campaign. He has had tropical diseases. He half-sleeps at night and gouges Japs out of holes all day. Two-thirds of his company has been killed or wounded. He will return to attack this morning. How much can a human being endure?[3]

When recounting his arrival in Vietnam in 1965, then Corporal Joe Houle said he saw no emotion in the eyes of his new squad: "The look in their eyes was like the life was sucked out of them." Later learning that the term for their condition was the 1,000-yard stare, Houle said, "After I lost my first friend, I felt it was best to be detached."

TampaSsgt

RAMMAC

This is the reason so many veterans don't get along with civilians. There is a point where you learn to not invest any part of you into any situation that isn't life or death. Try to remember that when you are spooled up over some stupid little issue and your boss seems oblivious to it.

Civilians get involved in self made drama over every little crappy thing that they experience. Before my time in the sandbox I was a by-the-book, picture perfect Jarhead, when I came back I still dressed and conducted myself by the regs but I wasn't spit and polish any more. I found substance is more important than imagery.

dwight55

Rammac, . . . you described it well. Some stuff is worth sweating, . . . but most is not and will never be.

Some time after leaving Uncle Sam's Canoe Club, . . . I realized that there never "AGAIN" ever would be (probably) anyone who could chew my rear end who had enough nuclear and / or conventional firepower to start a real World War III, . . . so I had had the worst I could get.

Life has not been quite as complicated ever since I figured that out.

Oh, . . . and for those who don't have it, . . . the thousand yard stare is a place in your mind where only you can go, . . . where only your ID card works, . . . where only your language is allowed, . . . where very few are allowed to even visit, . . . and I don't know one combat vet who doesn't visit the place. Some stay longer, . . . some leave early, . . . but all visit, . . . and some stay longer than they should.

May God bless,
Dwight

Pilot

Well said. 'nuff said...

CAVman

"Thousand-Yard Stare"...

When a 'grunt' asks himself...

"Why Did I Make It...and My Buddy Didn't..."

It's the beginning of 'survivor guilt', where the human brain simply can't reconcile all the death and destruction it has witnessed...and why did 'You' deserve to survive, and not your friends...

Sorry, that's just how I see it...

CAVman in WYoming

pepsi71ocean

yea he does seem like he is lifeless, and he also has a very dry humor. he is also very thin and ide have to say maybe 2-3% body fat, but he must be 120-130 for a 6 foot man, skinny and bony type, almost like a skeleton.


i take it there is no way to extract some info from him, or is there any use in trying to figure out where he has been?

carpshooter

I had a brother-in-law ,who like me also was drafted but into the Army back in '67,he served as a 11B in the 1st Air Cav. riding hueys and did alot of ground pounding also .

He would only talk about Nam to my brother (another Viet-vet) and to me .He earned two bronze stars ,one with valor for being on the recieving end of a claymore (US made weapon ) that the Vietcong shot at his squad ,got everyone but him and the other guy on the other end of that line as they were going through elephant grass.He and that other guy drugged everyone in that squad out dead or alive.The second bronze star must of been for surviving that day as all in his company got their's also , a picture of them shows about a small platoon size group with alot of M 60s in that photo ,whole company got hit that day .

He had alot of stories ,what few times he would talk about them.I always told him that his story of his life was far better than mine and worth a fortune , where mine was less . He chose to take it to his death I guess ,he took alot of pictures of Nam .

He died at age 60 ( I'm this age now ) a few years ago ,is the greatest humane being that I've known , humbles this jarhead .He smoked himself to his death , all his medals he earn could never take him from his memories of his time doing what a guy who put himself through college ,got married to my sister and then drafted from his school teaching job to fight in a war that left him more terroring memories than most !He return,raised two children ,was married to my sister until the end and would continue teaching until he retired !


I salute my brother-in -law ,Steven Ernst ,Sgt., " for without those who did what they had to at a time when most would of never wanted to be there , " a big thanks ! He wanted to be cremated and there is no marker of him ,until I put his name on the memorial wall in this small Iowan town that I live in ,had to put up mine also as my Legion brothers wanted me to do that ,may some day put up my older rival in life Viet-vet brother's also !I did this soon after his death ,as he will not be forgotten now !

The stare that I never got ( did my trigger time at night and was never challenge ), is fine by me .

Michael

1000 yd stare more aptly applies to somebody experiencing recent prolonged heavy combat.
Typified by Marines in the Pacific or the airborne or infantry troops and others in Europe.
Other places apply, and mileage will vary, but the actual stare is pretty specific to area and time periods.

It is a result of actual prolonged life and death trauma.
Nothing less. It should not be trivialised.

I think it is not an appropriate term years after the fact.

There are likely other issues at work, including not coping with his experiences.
I did my two tours in 68-70.
Had a few issues to confront and did kind of drag my feet over it.

However, blaming problems and atutudes and behavior on something that happened almost 40 years ago is a copout.

t is also disrespectful when addressed at somebody else.

I don't believe in survivor guilt. It's a weak attention getting tool.

I feel sadness and remorse at comrades and strangers I saw die.

I feel now and felt then glad that I was still alive when the smoke cleared.

I once got medivacced on a rigid litter. I was too far gone to ride the jungle penetrator.
I was pretty sure I was finished.
I was pretty happy I made it.

I sure never felt guilty about my survival anytime.

2336USMC

I'm glad you made it out, both physically and mentally. Really. And thank you for your service.

I'm sure there are a few people riding the system for whatever they can get from it, see the "Stolen Valor" and poser crowd etc.

However, not everyone reacts the same way to life and death stress. You laid down some pretty hard and fast rules about who and when you think any stress applies. Where did you get that "approved" list? Is it marked on a calendar somewhere?

Is there a time limit that none of the rest of us know about? Is it 90 days, or a year? 10 years? Please let us know what your stopwatch says.

Somewhere I have a photo of me and 5 of my friends getting promoted to SSgt on the same day. I am the only one of the group of 6 still physically in one piece.

When I was trying to pile my friend's guts back into his abdomen in 1993 ("peacetime") does that not fall within your approved schedule?

For some people, picking up pieces of friends can be, um, somewhat disturbing. I am not sure that your glib statement about copouts will help.

This post gets *0* dancing grenades. ()

BREAK

OK, I'm going to take a second whack at this. Mods, if my post need to be deleted, please selectively delete the first part.

I don't think you are qualified to make these statements.

Maybe you would like to just slap them in the face and call them cowards.

I personally know people that served, and aren't right anymore, and may never be right again.

Is that better?

CAVman

Quote:

I sure never felt guilty about my survival anytime.

Then either You, My Friend, Are The Exception...or I've Been Hanging Around the Wrong Group of Vietnam Vets for the last 40 + - Years...

No Offense Intended, I just think You are 'defining' Survivor Guilt too personally, too subjectively...
It is Real...and accounts for a lot of Vets Not Coping very well...
When they/we do get help...when we can recognize What It Is that we are Feeling...Then we can Label It...and Recognize it when we see it/feel it...and gradually, gradually we can 'diminish' it, but never truly eliminate it...

You mentioned feeling instead 'sadness and remorse'...
I understand that...but over the years I have talked directly not only to VN Vets but to Korea and World War II and Even WWI Vets(and now Iraq Vets)...
And somewhere in the mentioning of losing Friends and Comrades, in the 'sadness and remorse'...comes a statement something like:...I will never know or understand why they died and I didn't...

And look up a dictionary definition of 'remorse'...9 out of 10 defintions include something about a sense of 'guilt'...

I know I personally have felt, sometimes more, sometimes less...Survivor's Guilt...
I have been to Washington, D.C. a number of times...
No matter why I am there, no matter what the weather...
I Go to The Wall...I pull out my old Boonie Hat and put in on...
I Salute those 'Boys' on The Wall Who Didn't Make It Home...
And, Yes...I have Tears in My Eyes...

CAVman in WYoming

Lewis

The 1000 yd stare most of us vets are familiar with wasn't accomplished by ourselves. I was in a boat detachment that hauled Marines upriver to a point, hours or days later we would return to pick them up...most of those guys had the stare, we never got close.
I tend to agree with a previous reply that post traumatic stress can induce the stare in someone that was severely stressed over a long period of time or horrendously traumitized briefly, you could probably see the stare on some of the victims of the 911 tragedy.
Some doofus once told me that guys got the stare from concentrating their field of focus at 1000yds in order to avoid a problem, I told him that anybody focusing any further away than 25yds was in for a world of hurt, that was part of the intensity...you had to watch everything, all the time, not nervous just aware. It was that awareness that seperated the weed from someone that had some time in country, you just basically had to be wary...for the guys in the bush that was pretty damned intense, with experience they could appear relaxed and in some way they were relaxed, but very wary. Over a period of time even that relaxed wariness has a way of breaking a human being down, combined with extreme fatigue, poor diet, lack of water and you drag the human condition out to the breaking point. The pictures of our troops during WWII, particularly the Marines in the South Pacific or the Army troops at the bulge show the extreme of human endurance, thats the stare.
My heart felt gratitude to those of my brothers that suffered and paid the price for our freedom.

John Crusher

Sometimes I drift back and remember. I think and feel. Then my wife, or kids ,or grandkids say "Honey, or Dad, or Grampa are you O.K.? I tell them I'm fine. I'm O.K. And then I am, until next time. It's who I am, not who I was.

canman

Different Army but it's always the same.