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"Info for Vets: VA Hospital Questions..."

3K views 2 replies 3 participants last post by  CPTKILLER 
#1 ·
My brother sent me this. [IInteresting read.[/I]

CCKen





"Info for Vets: VA Hospital Questions..."

June 4th, 2009

Jim,

I'm sorry to send you two emails in one day, but this one is very important.

A while ago, I printed a warning from a USCCA member who said that his local VA had asked him a series of questions, which could be used to revoke the veteran's concealed carry permit if the wrong answers were given.

If this doesn't concern you, please feel free to stop reading right now, but I just had to send it. It seems that the warning I sent has been spreading online like wild-fire, because we are literally getting HUNDREDS of emails asking us for more information about this.

Personally, I have ZERO information on this (I was just the messenger), so we went to the USCCA Members forum and asked the veterans there for their thoughts about this, and whether or not they had any information.

The replies we received are pretty astounding. Well, I think you should read for yourself. I'm going to share a few with you here.

Remember- these aren't my words, and I have no way to verify or prove them, but they are the words of USCCA members.

Here was the original message by a veteran:

I had a doctor's appointment at the local VA clinic yesterday and found something very interesting I would like to pass along. While going through triage before seeing the doctor, I was asked at the end of the exam, three questions.

(1. Did I feel stressed?)
(2. Did I feel threatened?)
(3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?)

The nurse then informed me, if I had answered yes to any of the questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone into my medical records and the VA would have reported it to Homeland Security.

I am a Viet Nam vet and 15 year cc permit holder. Looks like they are going after us vets...



........................Reply #1........................

What a rude awakening this morning!!!

I went to the VA yesterday to meet with a primary care physician in -----------.

Those questions were asked of me and I answered truthfully. I'm sick and tired of this Draconian, Machiavellian web of entrapment that the Obamanation is spinning to ensnare veterans and those who might disagree with his policies.

I just can't believe what is happening in this country.


........................Reply #2........................

I am in the VA system and have been for the past 10 years... Yes they do ask the standard psych questions but I do not think they are sent to a central database outside the VA. Case in point, I have a personal friend who was treated for depression at the VA but not diagnosed with a mental illness. He is not taking any meds now but was on them for a couple of years. since he was not diagnosed with any mental illness he did not have any problem getting and maintaining a ccw.

If you answer yes to any of the standard psych questions you will be asked to see the psych docs to determine why. The VA as a whole, is not in the habit of pigeon holing someone who needs help. there were many cases of veterans who needed psychological help and were not getting it.

This is why they ask those questions and have for at least the last 8 years (that I can remember). Does the care sometimes take a little longer, yes any large scale operation will, look at Kaiser sometime. Also a sign at the front desk of my VA clinic states that visits to the local ER are NOT covered under the VA. It requires an approval to see a civilian Doc.

I am sorry to hear that some of our veterans have endured some pretty bad treatment. I have been pretty impressed with the service I have received from the VA. I had private insurance (Kaiser) and gave it up since the VA does all I need them to. Even had Docs call me at home just to see how I was doing. I have not had that with any other doctors. I do maintain a Civilian Doc for urgent care and ER type visits. But that is covered under my retirement benefits.

Until I have hard confirmation that the VA is reporting info to the GOVT I am very skeptical.


........................Reply #3........................

This confirms it - and my suspicion for some time that Obama is going to use the proposed Electronic Medical Records Database (now being offered by Walmart in partnership with Dell Computer for small docs) - with all the Americans' medical info in a database - and use that to cross-check against CCWs and firearm purchases and reject people based on any one of the following:

1) mental health incidents
2) prescription drugs that may be deemed incompatible with carrying or even possessing a firearm
3) medical diagnoses that may be deemed incompatible with carrying or even possessing a firearm
4) physical issues in the medical records that may be deemed incompatible with carrying or even possessing a firearm
5) questions about is there a gun at home; do you have a gun; etc. the answers to which may be deemed incompatible with carrying or even possessing a firearm.

For me, I won't see any doctor that is going to put my medical info into a nationwide electronic database - if I have to and have no choice, I'm going to starting treating doctors like insurance adjusters for purposes of answering questions -

Finally, it's OK to refuse to answer a doctor's question based on your perception that the question invades your privacy - just tell them, "that question invades my privacy, am I legally required to answer?"

........................Reply #4........................

I just had an appointment at the Dallas VA Med Ctr yesterday, and none of those questions were asked of me.

I must conclude that it is someone at your local VA who has instituted it. You might want to contact the Patient Representative at the local VA and ask them why those questions are being asked.

........................Reply #5........................

It must be a regional thing. I was told by the nurse asking that is was due to the large number of vets who were not receiving proper care or having problems but not wanting to talk about them. If it is only regional then it cannot be useful in gathering info to revoke a CCW. That is why I was suspicious of the original post.
........................Reply #6........................

One of the concepts we learned, or often heard, in the military was "need to know". And how many times were our questions deflected and avoided by "them", simply by saying that we did not have a "need to know"? Well, at this time in my life, I would say that turn around is fair play. I retired from the service in '93 and every governmental question I've answered since then has been on "the" "need to know" premise.

And any one of us citizens with half a brain knows by now that 'mental health' and "disorders" like PTSD are automatic precursors to disqualification and subject to interpretation... someone else's interpretation - which always proves detrimental to ourselves.

In reality, we veteran's must accept that the writing is on the wall when it comes to our mental stability and having served a tour or two in a war zone. Every time there is a news story reporting some psycho rampage, or gunman killing spree, and the perp 'happens' to be a veteran, his service is cited in the very first sentence of the story! Sadly, there have been so many sniper stories and spousal killings and 'returning vet couldn't adjust to civilian life', claiming a veteran "cracked" and went 'ballistic' with a weapon that all of we 'combat vets' are currently stereo-typed.

I can not, and will not, tell anyone what to do when filling out paperwork - but I will suggest this. When preparing to answer a question, ask yourself; what bearing does this have on the intent and purpose of this application/paperwork? Exactly how will my answering this question 'reflect' on me - good or bad? And please keep in mind, you can not undo what you do write on paper and submit.
........................Reply #7........................

TruthOrFiction.com has a report on this as bogus. But I reserve judgment after all the negative remarks made by this gang in DC lately.
........................Reply #8........................

NO, it's not bogus. I have had 5 contacts with the VA clinic here in Show Low and can testify that they are asking quite invasive questions that I see as none of their business. When I refused to answer on these grounds, I got asked "why", I told them it was none of their business.

I am currently debating filing a claim for PTSD AND MY BIGGEST CONCERN is being labeled as mentally unstable. It's a hell of a note. Something is not right big time.


........................Reply #9........................

Here's my take on this, and as another disabled vet I don't doubt it for one second. Not only is this one of their new triage questions for our mental health, but an excuse to search the vehicles of the vets that give a affirmative answer to the question of gun ownership, as it's a federal felony to have a gun on the grounds of the VA!

This is one veteran that ain' t gonna bite, I will either not answer that question/s, or will give a "sideways" answer. I have a 4 hour drive(special VA unit) to get to my VAMC, and now that I have my CWP there's no way in hell I'm making that trip without my gun! When it comes to my gun, I'll leave to safely locked up in my vehicle, and my mouth shut about it there!


........................Reply #10........................

True story: A friend of mine had to travel 4 hours to a distant government facility for an appointment with his rheumatologist. His wife saw him put a handgun into a small travel bag and throw it into his trunk before leaving the house and thought he was going to hurt himself with it. She called the highway patrol, reported her husband and the gun, and explained where he was headed.

He managed to get to the doctors office without being stopped by any state HP was sitting outside the office in the waiting room. Some time had passed and he was sitting there, calmly having some small talk with a female patient who was also waiting to be seen when a nurse walked up to the female patient and asked for her to follow the nurse somewhere.

(He later realized it was a move to get the female patient safely away from the "gunman" sitting there talking to her).

A few minutes later, two men in suits came walking around one corner and into the hallway walking towards the sitting man. At the opposite end of the hallway, two more men in suits turned a corner and came walking down the hallway towards the sitting man. Odd. Peculiar.

When the four men arrived in front of the sitting man they all turned to face him, one pulled out a badge and asked the man to stand while two others each grabbed an arm. They asked the man his name, and then said, something like "we need to talk to you" and led him into an adjacent room and closed the door.

They gave him the third degree about why he was there, what doctor was he seeing, did he have an appointment, and oh yea, incidentally, do you have a gun on you? The "gunman" didn't have a clue what was going on (didn't know his wife had called the police and reported the gun and feared he was going to hurt himself).

Do you have a gun in the trunk of your car? He answered "yes". Where is your car parked? He told them. Why do you have a gun in your car? He explained that he had traveled 4 hours to get there, across state lines, and didn't travel anywhere outside his hometown without his pistol in the car.

The suits asked "Did you intend on killing your doctor for any reason?" He replied of course not. Well, he ended up being handcuffed, searched, his car searched, his gun confiscated, and then escorted directly to a local mental health facility where he was "admitted for observation". He fought and screamed and demanded to be released until finally he was given a sedative.

The following days he was required to "conform", to attend daily discussion groups, to do finger painting projects and to meet with a psychiatrist for a one on one everyday. After one week, and still demanding to be released, he wrote a letter to his congressman and said that he was being imprisoned in a psych ward against his will.

The letter was diverted to the clinic doctor who then met with the "gunman". You're not being held here involuntarily, against your will, you're here for observation and appear to have anger issues that would "substantiate" your carrying a gun to the doctor's office.

He said that was bull crap, explained why he had the gun in his car, that he didn't threaten anyone and that he was there against his will. The doctor then told the "gunman", you violated federal law by bringing that gun onto federal property; you could be charged and sent to jail, is that what you want?

As far as we're concerned, you are here "voluntarily, of your own free volition", you're going to stay one more week and then we're going to release you - no arrest and no jail time. Here's your letter to the Congressman back, I trust you won't be needing to send it now.

He was released a week later and his gun was mailed to him 4 weeks after that. He now knows that there are doctor's reports out there somewhere regarding his "voluntary hospitalization", but he doesn't know if it's a matter of record on any government database.

You want to talk about rights and justice? There is no justice, and your rights are only as guaranteed as the person wielding the power allows them to be...

--END OF REPLIES--

Well, I hope this balance of replies will give you a solid enough analysis, and let your intuition do the rest of the work.

Remember- I'm just the messenger. I wish I had concrete info for you, but all I have is what I hear USCCA members discussing.

You guys know I have all the respect and gratitude in the world for you vets, and I appreciate the opportunity to watch your six for a change.

GOOD LUCK, and let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

Tim Schmidt
USCCA Founder
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#2 ·
This same issue has been discussed here for some time, beginning almost two years ago...

http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=45284&highlight=ptsd

While I agree it is a serious issue for Us Vets to think about...
It is Not New, It is Not Because of Obama...and if anybody here who tries to make it Purely POLITICAL...This Thread will be Quickly Deleted by the Moderators just like many other recent 'Political' Posts that have been Deleted without discussion and without notice!
So...If we keep it INFORMATIONAL...and VETERAN Related...and Non-Political...it may be of some value to Us Vets, Okay?

One Thing I Learned Many Years Ago at our Vet Center Here...
Nobody But YOU knows the Length of Your Swing!
Meaning: Don't Scare People, Don't Threaten People, Don't Tell ANYBODY that you 'feel like doing harm to somebody!'!
Dumb! It will 'cost you' whether you are a Veteran or Not!
YOU may know... YOU are just Venting, just letting off Steam, just on a Rant...just P.O.'ed...etc,etc,etc...
Keep Your Cool...So You Can Keep Your Freedom and Keep Your Guns!
There are Too Many Vets(esp. from This Particular Group of New Vets)who have committed suicide...The 'Gov't---The V.A. is trying to Help Them! Just Make Sure YOU Don't Get More Help Than You Want Or Need!!!

This is a Serious Subject...Keep POLITICS Out of It!
This is the M14 Forum...not the Corner Bar...

CAVman in WYoming
 
#3 ·
HIPAA Laws

The VA falls under HIPAA Laws and cannot arbitrarily give information to others. If they do, you could own a lifetime of M1A's and ammunition when the lawsuit is over.

"HIPAA permits the disclosure of Protected Health Information (“PHI”) to law enforcement officials in specified circumstances:
Pursuant to legal process and as otherwise required by law;
To a limited degree, for purposes of identifying and locating certain classes of persons;
As necessary to alert law enforcement to the commission and circumstances of a crime.
“Law enforcement” is broadly conceived by HIPAA. It includes any governmental agency or official authorized to investigate, prosecute or conduct an inquiry into a potential violation of law."

A legal process refers to a court order, warrant or supoena. Read http://www.aele.org/hipaa-info.html for more info.GI3
 
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