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4 quit after Oklahoma veteran with maggots in wound dies

This is a discussion on 4 quit after Oklahoma veteran with maggots in wound dies within the Veterans Affairs forums, part of the Armed Services category; It is unfortunate that there apparently are a number of non-vets who choose to express an opinion on this topic and who have no investment ...


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Old December 5th, 2016, 03:18 PM   #31
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It is unfortunate that there apparently are a number of non-vets who choose to express an opinion on this topic and who have no investment in it. I would just as soon they comment on Medicaid and leave VA medical care to those of us who are a part of it.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 03:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sniper_M-14 View Post
I agree with you but I think you would be better served if you can go where you want and find the best for your problem or illness. If a retired vet I'd not have to use the VA system all the time it would open up resources for active duty and families. This also takes away the excuse they are over worked and under staffed. But when you think about how much time you spend traveling to VA hospitals when a local hospital has the resources you need with a doctor you know and trust it would be much better.
I know people hear horror stories about hospitals but they never hear it when a suit is thrown out because it wasn't the hospital or staffs fault. Private and local hospitals practice medicine as if they are going to be sued so lawers and insurance co. who are always on your back and don't forget the gov regs . The millions of people non VA hospitals take care of it is inevitable there will be mistakes. We are not gods but human ! When the same thing happens in the same place well you got a problem.
For those who live in other countries and don't like the service go home and wait on line for a year to get what you need.(sorry I had to say that)
I think most government operations are broke and need fixing but it won't happen until they have the guests the private system is under.
Nurses can only do so much and they become the scape goat for administration and doctors mistakes. We can be whistleblowers and patient advocates but when we go up the chain it can be months before we find out what happened. It used to be I could look up all info on my patients but thanks to hippa law I can only look at what the gov thinks I should know. Can't look and see what everyone is doing anymore.
He there are bad nurses too but did you ever try to get rid of someone who is incompetent and get hit with a harassment suit where they don't need evidence and you can't and are not allowed t provide any.

That's enough I'm ranting. lol .
I am honestly getting tired of repeating this, but---
If Congress starts having Veterans routinely opt out of the VA system, but still requires the VA to pay for that medical care...It Will Be The End Of The VA Hospital System!
Then Veterans will be in the same lines with anyone and everyone else who is on Medicare or Medicaid!
That is a Betrayal!
And we won't be able to put the Genie back into the bottle!
Face it, there are many Politicians who don't really give a damn whether Veterans get what America promised them or not...
It really appears they want the VA to fail...so it can be eliminated!
But the same can be said for the idea that Social Security should be Privatized!
It too is a 'Contract' that must be kept.

But no---it seems everyone is looking for 'Bumper Sticker Slogans' as simplistic solutions that don't require any Fixing of Anything!

But don't get me started...



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Old December 5th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #33
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I note you say "you would be better served" rather than "we would be better served." Are you speaking of this issue from a veteran's perspective or an outsider's perspective?
Sorry I had an opinion I started in this post before it was moved here. Normally I stay out of this area.

As far as being served I mean it might be closer to home ,better care, more experienced doctor for your medical problem ( maybe even an expert in that area) . If the right you earned thru your military service if it's completely portable (you can use VA or private facilities with out hoop jumping) why would that be a problem.

Yes I did not serve and have been a civilian my whole life with the exception of 20 years as a firefighter . But 30 years as a nurse taking care of VA screw ups I guess I have some perspectives to offer.
I have taken care if vets with problems from mustard gas thru gulf war syndrome so I guess I have done my part.

So I will excuse my self from posting on this subject from here on if that's what you would like no hard feelings I hope.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 04:35 PM   #34
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Sniper, I didn't see anything wrong with your post. Constructive comments from diverse viewpoints should always be welcome in a discussion.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by GardenValley View Post
It is unfortunate that there apparently are a number of non-vets who choose to express an opinion on this topic and who have no investment in it. I would just as soon they comment on Medicaid and leave VA medical care to those of us who are a part of it.
GardenValley,

I AM a NON Vet BUT my father is! He is up in Oregon getting old and needs the VA's help. I advised him some years back to get his purple heart stuff done and he later thanked me for what it did for his VA service waits and attention to his needs...
There are those of us who appreciate OUR vets even if we did not serve!
Jeff

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Old December 5th, 2016, 05:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sniper_M-14 View Post
Sorry I had an opinion I started in this post before it was moved here. Normally I stay out of this area.

As far as being served I mean it might be closer to home ,better care, more experienced doctor for your medical problem ( maybe even an expert in that area) . If the right you earned thru your military service if it's completely portable (you can use VA or private facilities with out hoop jumping) why would that be a problem.

Yes I did not serve and have been a civilian my whole life with the exception of 20 years as a firefighter . But 30 years as a nurse taking care of VA screw ups I guess I have some perspectives to offer.
I have taken care if vets with problems from mustard gas thru gulf war syndrome so I guess I have done my part.

So I will excuse my self from posting on this subject from here on if that's what you would like no hard feelings I hope.

You have not offended me. However, I find it troubling that we veterans are subjected to solutions to the VA issue by non-veterans who have no experience with the VA and no understanding of service connected injuries and disabilities. Offering solutions while having no such understanding seldom has a positive effect on developing viable solutions and is often a disservice to those of us who have served. Please pardon me for sounding so harsh.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 05:36 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by JEFFJP_N_JJ View Post
GardenValley,

I AM a NON Vet BUT my father is! He is up in Oregon getting old and needs the VA's help. I advised him some years back to get his purple heart stuff done and he later thanked me for what it did for his VA service waits and attention to his needs...
There are those of us who appreciate OUR vets even if we did not serve!
Jeff

I'm not disputing that there are those non-vets who appreciate the service of our veterans. You did your father a great service by urging him to make certain the VA had all his service records so he could receive the best care available. However, I often sense that there are many non-vets who are promoting the least costly and most easy "fix" to VA issues. In those instances, I prefer that veterans with first hand experience with the VA be the ones who debate the issue and help develop the solutions because they are the ones who will be impacted and will have to live with it. Non-vets who never have seen the inside of a VA facility or experienced VA care cannot know anything about it and any comments they may make on the subject, however well intended, have no reference basis.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 06:06 PM   #38
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You have not offended me. However, I find it troubling that we veterans are subjected to solutions to the VA issue by non-veterans who have no experience with the VA and no understanding of service connected injuries and disabilities. Offering solutions while having no such understanding seldom has a positive effect on developing viable solutions and is often a disservice to those of us who have served. Please pardon me for sounding so harsh.
Yes I have little experience with the VA but I have worked with other nurse and doctors who did work for the VA and the army and navy . I have heard the stories from them and how hard it is to fix what's broke.
Yes if your injury is service related if you feel better with the VA fine . If you feel good about it that's half the battle you have confidence in them it helps in the overall care.

My concern is not to get rid of the VA rather than fix it and that you have the choice to use your benefits you earned to get what you need when you need it. It is a little upsetting to think you feel the the only people you think you have common ground with you are in the VA. As I said before many doctors and nurses served too and understand what you were thru.

I truly want you to get the care you need when you need it not months later.

I was going to join the army after hs but went to nursing school instead and they told me they had to many nurses. Maybe they thought I was not in the correct profession for my sex.

Fix it or dump it to many vets are dying.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 06:48 PM   #39
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It is unfortunate that there apparently are a number of non-vets who choose to express an opinion on this topic and who have no investment in it. I would just as soon they comment on Medicaid and leave VA medical care to those of us who are a part of it.
Under that argument, any vet who has not visited every VA facility and been educated in Health Care administration is not qualified to comment, because they have not seen every aspect of it. Or conversely, people who make policy should be required to be vets before they can speak on the matter.

This is a forum where anyone who has an opinion is entitled to give it, regardless of experience.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 07:04 PM   #40
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So on one thread we have an outsider(NonVet) will be perfect to be run the VA and in this one NonVets shouldn't have an opinion or express said opinion on the VA?

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Old December 5th, 2016, 08:26 PM   #41
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Under that argument, any vet who has not visited every VA facility and been educated in Health Care administration is not qualified to comment, because they have not seen every aspect of it. Or conversely, people who make policy should be required to be vets before they can speak on the matter.

This is a forum where anyone who has an opinion is entitled to give it, regardless of experience.
Opinions are like ...... well, you know how that one goes.

I've no experience in rocket science so if when NASA received the message, "Houston, we have a problem.", had I chimed in with my opinion it would have been of no use in helping solve the problem.

The VA issue is akin to, "Vets, we have a problem."

Yes, there can be good ideas from many sources about fixing the VA, but if a person's understanding of the VA system is non-existent then they can't be expected to contribute much of anything that is of any value. That is my point.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 08:49 PM   #42
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A veteran visiting one facility does not mean that person has sufficient knowledge of the system either, that's my point.

At the end of the day, no one in the VA is reading the M14 Forum to determine what we ought to do, so the reality is that NO ONE here has the qualifications to offer an actual solution, and this discussion is really just that: a discussion, which involves an open sharing of opinions and ideas, with no requirement for 'qualification' of any sort before a person's ideas are deemed 'worthy'.

Heck, if that were true, all of us except Gus Fisher would not be allowed to post.

At the end of the day, you are entitled to decide what posts you deem interesting, and what posts you decide to ignore. But to me, being told that I am not even worthy to offer an opinion, because I have not met some test of yours, is really counter the idea of a forum. I don't mean to offend, or to appear to pick a fight, but to me, the qualification to offer an opinion on the M14 Forum is that you have an interest in M14s and are a member. Nothing more.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 09:47 PM   #43
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A veteran visiting one facility does not mean that person has sufficient knowledge of the system either, that's my point.

At the end of the day, no one in the VA is reading the M14 Forum to determine what we ought to do, so the reality is that NO ONE here has the qualifications to offer an actual solution, and this discussion is really just that: a discussion, which involves an open sharing of opinions and ideas, with no requirement for 'qualification' of any sort before a person's ideas are deemed 'worthy'.

Heck, if that were true, all of us except Gus Fisher would not be allowed to post.

At the end of the day, you are entitled to decide what posts you deem interesting, and what posts you decide to ignore. But to me, being told that I am not even worthy to offer an opinion, because I have not met some test of yours, is really counter the idea of a forum. I don't mean to offend, or to appear to pick a fight, but to me, the qualification to offer an opinion on the M14 Forum is that you have an interest in M14s and are a member. Nothing more.
I agree, but if one has no knowledge or experience with the topic being discussed, either the M14 rifle or the VA, then there is little likelihood they can offer anything of value.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 10:17 PM   #44
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Who gets to judge the merits of someone's ideas, before they say what they want to say?

Further, while non veterans are not consumers of VA benefits, as a taxpayer I am paying for the system. Are you saying that paying in does not entitle me to even voice an opinion?

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Old December 5th, 2016, 10:42 PM   #45
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I am not a veteran but I do support those that are. As a ER nurse working in the private sector, I have seen and sent Veterans to VA hospitals from my ER and every time it has been a hassle. Excuse after excuse is always given, no rooms, no beds, the MOA on call refuses to accept for some reason where other private hospitals would accept the same veteran without question. Health care from what I have seen and experienced is like the rest of the GOVERNMENT sit and wait. If Private hospitals tired to do what the VA does to our veterans, the GOVERNMENT would closed the door so quick it would break your neck. I don't have a answer only observations. I only hope that the elected and appointed officials would at least try to do the right thing for our veterans!! It just bothers me how the VA can and has treated our hero's and all those that have served. Thank you for all of you that have served

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