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30 cal round in the end of barrel ?

This is a discussion on 30 cal round in the end of barrel ? within the Steel and Wood forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; I have been looking at some M1 carbines for sale and often see a 30.06 round stuck in the end of the barrel to show ...


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Old August 4th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #1
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30 cal round in the end of barrel ?

I have been looking at some M1 carbines for sale and often see a 30.06 round stuck in the end of the barrel to show the ME wear. What should I be looking for when I see this to determine how bad the ME wear is. Thanks

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Old August 4th, 2013, 07:46 PM   #2
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The more of the bullet that you can see the less wear on the barrel.

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Old August 4th, 2013, 09:02 PM   #3
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Personally, I have a 30 cal gauge. Using a .30cal bullet to show wear comes up from time to time. To me, it tells you nothing at all aside from the fact that the bbl doesn't swallow the bullet it gives no indication of wear at all. The PTG ME gauge I have is graduated in thousandth increments starting at .299 up to .303. It is 5.5 inches long to include the knurled handle, the measuring section is 4 inches long broken up in five different diameter sections. This give a clear indication of the ME where a bullet gives you no quantifiable data at all. Just my two cents. I get a kick each time I see a pic of a bullet sticking out of a bbl for sale. I guess on a positive note, the bullet is not going all the way into the muzzle of the bbl.
This pic tells me something (please don't laugh at my improvised light reflector)

This one tells me nothing at all


If you don't want to buy one that has a shot out bbl, ask the guy if he can get a reading from someone with a gauge. When I'm on the search for a vintage military firearm, I bring my gauges. Not to shoot the deal down, so I know what I'm buying. Some counter people won't even let you thoroughly inspect a rifle, I pass on them.
I realize the bbl in the pic is a 14 bbl, I'd be glad to do the same with a carbine bbl.
In fact here it is. Can you tell what the wear is using the -06 bullet? I can't but I can tell you the gauge shows the muzzle is 1 thousandth over .30 cal (.308) or .309


I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm just making the point that using a bullet in the end of a bbl tells you nothing

PSS that particular gauge was made for Ted Brown and I'm pretty certain it was made at pacific tool and gauge. I got it from the LRB shop a couple of years ago. You can order one direct, I just thought it was neat that Teds name is on the case.


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Old August 6th, 2013, 09:09 AM   #4
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About all it's doing is to be a "quikee" way to tell if the muzzle is shot out, all the way to the brass meant a worn sloppy muzzle.

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Old August 6th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #5
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvelrider View Post
About all it's doing is to be a "quikee" way to tell if the muzzle is shot out, all the way to the brass meant a worn sloppy muzzle.
I agree with the above. Without a ME gage it is hard to determine the degree of erosion. That is unless you have half a dozen barrels with a various known degrees of erosion that you could compare the bullet depth to. If you are thatf ar into buying/changing out barrels, it would pay to buy a ME Gage. dozier

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Old August 6th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #6
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Gents, what is the diameter of a 30-06 bullet? It .308. Why doesn't it go into my carbine bbl if the muzzle diameter is .309?
It's just doesn't tell you anything about the bbl muzzle erosion

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Old August 6th, 2013, 11:55 AM   #7
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I may be missing something, but the gage doesn't seem to be showing a diameter of .309.

Disregard. I see now how the gage is graduated. My old eyes don't do too well with the slightly blurry photo.

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Old August 6th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #8
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Lands, grooves, wear, out of round, burrs, you name it. If the bullet were to go any farther, your bbl would either be worn out or rebated. My CMP M1 Carbine has a rebated bbl with the last about 1/2" opened up probably due to abuse at the muzzle. I couldn't use the gage, but the good news is that it is still fairly accurate. It looks ugly, won't clean up at the end but still shoots great.
Bruce

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Old August 7th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #9
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I would suggest that if you are going to make a habit of spending the kind of cash this hobby is beginning to demand that you invest in a good TE gauge and MW gauge as well. As stated before I have never understood how people think cramming a bullet in the end of a barrel indicates anything about the condition of the barrel. Admittedly if it swallows it up to the case mouth it is probably time to move on.

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Old August 7th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #10
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The lands of the .30 cal bore are .2995'' and if the muzzle is near or new the .308'' diameter bullet will stick out almost 1/4 '' between case and muzzle face.As stated this is a good quick check for muzzle wear but a muzzle erosion gage is preferred method.

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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:35 PM   #11
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I sure as heck wouldn't buy a rifle I could stick a bullet in all the way to the brass. It quickly tells you that there is no rifling left at the muzzle and the bullet would just be banging it's way down the barrel. Can you say musket type accuracy at that point.

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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #12
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The bullet test is worthless. There are so many different bullet profiles, some go farther into the muzzle than others. I proved it to a customer with a M1 Garand the other day. The gauge is the way to go.

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Old August 8th, 2013, 03:26 AM   #13
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If using a round for a approx muzzle wear use a M2Ball round. While I agree a gauge is the very best way to measure and its what I use ,a M2Ball rd stuck in the muzzle is not a worthless test.

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Old August 8th, 2013, 04:07 AM   #14
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agree with Messr. Orlando. One has to be pretty dang silly to say stuff like "a bullet test is worthless" when simple logic alone informs us that NOTHING in an .308 GROOVE DEPTH barrel should EVER be .309"!!!--(Little hint to Messr. Airborne on how to read his own gauge, the HOLE (BORE DIAMETER) starts off at .300", the GROOVES are .308--sheesh). Thus, simple logic informs us that a typical GI or Hunting .30 caliber (.308/30.06 etc.) round has an OGIVE that ALWAYS incorporates this range of diameter, then it is absolutely CLEAR that the bullet test, while not an exact measuring device has OBVIOUS UTILITY. Since I don't always carry one of my three TE and/or ME gauges around in my pocket, it's pretty dang simple to just ask for a round of ammo to get a fairly decent ESTIMATE whether the muzzle is either one of these three GENERAL categories: WORN OUT, WORN, or GOOD/EXC.


Thanks from JD Russell

Last edited by AKA Hugh Uno; August 8th, 2013 at 04:34 AM.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #15
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BTW, I am pretty dang picky about my shooter barrels! (lol)


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