M14 Forum

doubledown

Only those who actually personally fired a magazine fed Saiga, please compare that shotguns recoil, speed, and on target hits to an 870 Remmington or any other shotgun on the planet. I think I might be going crazy.

starman

I have a Saiga 12 and love it. It is a fun weapon to shoot. I have only fired my son's 870 a few time so I really can't accurately compare the two, but it appears that at least with my shooting, the Saiga 12 and the 870 are comparable in accuracy at 50 yards.

I have read a lot on another form that discusses the Saiga 12 that there are some bad Saiga 12 out there. They are often referred to as vodka specials, but I don't seem to have one. Mine operates just fine and always has.

The kick for Saiga 12, to me, is compatible with any other 12 gauge firing the same ammo. The Saiga 12 just fires it much faster!

Steve in Allentown PA

I used to be a dyed in the wool Remington fanatic. Then I got a Saiga. Those rascally Russians went and converted me into a fire-breathing, rompin'-stompin', Izmash-lovin', kind of guy.

I have lots of experience with 870s and 1100s. Can't say a bad word about them. But the Saiga is in a league of its own in terms of a fighting shotgun. It could use some refinement especially in the magazine changing department but they are solid and reliable. Feed it from a 20 round drum magazine from MD Arms and you have the ultimate short range home defense weapon.

Plus a cottage industry has emerged that provides all manner of modifications for the Saiga. A variety of choke tubes are available as well as magazines, stocks, pistol grips, tacticool rails, etc.

The gas system can be adjusted and the recoil spring can be replaced with heavier or lighter springs. These two areas of adjustment allow you to tune it to a specific load, if you wish, thus mitigating recoil. There are guys who report great success at the shotgun games like trap, skeet, and sporting clays using the Saiga although I must admit I've yet to use mine for any of them.

However, the Siaga is not a game gun. It's not as quick to the shoulder and doesn't track as well as an 1100 for me. But for fending off the zombie hordes you can't beat the Saiga.

The Russians just don't seem to design their firearms for games. They appear to be a serious lot.

VA27

The Saiga12 is a fun gun. The only real gripes I had were the lack of a bolt hold-open and the fact that keeping a fully loaded mag in the gun for any length of time will mash the top round making it hard/impossible to chamber.

It's kinda cumbersome with the mag sticking down and it surely is ugly, but it functioned reliably with anything I fed it (with the gas system adjusted properly) and in general was ok.

I traded it for a Benelli M1S90 and have been happy.

xmeister

I have shot the Saiga 12 gauge. I found it to be like AK. It worked, but lacked refinement. The edges are sharp and the ergonomics poor. The sight radius is short and sights are smallish. If I was an AK guy, then it might make sense to have one platform for shotgun and rifle, but as I am an M14 guy, I'll pass. Your milage may vary.

flesheatingvirus

I was very surprised at how smoothly it shot, but I never was a fan of the AK ergonomics.

slagusmc

I have a saiga 12 and I love it. Mine came with a factory bolt hold open too even though I upgraded it later. It is very reliable until after too many rapid fire mag dumps, then the gas plug starts fowling from the wads. During my torture testing, I also had a malfunction due to the the shotgun shells melting from the heat and failing to properly feed....that was after about 100rds of rapid fire, pausing only for mag/drum changes,lol. With a pistol grip conversion, I like the ergonomics...fit and finish is typical russian though. I think it is the fastest action out there...it is faster and smoother than my buddy's benelli. Accuracy was excellent for a smooth bore shotgun. my $.02

Delta

You can easily make any Saiga 12ga run flawlessly, some got shipped with a small gas ports simpilly enlarge them. I ported mine to run light field loads, and it still handles slugs just fine. The advantage you have with a pump gun is the option to use breaching loads and others that are not hot enough to cycle the Saiga. I really like mine. The recoil is managable, 20 slugs through the drum will leave ya knowing you shot something!

stuto

I had a Saiga 12 but ended up trading it for another gun that I ended trading for a Norico M-14. I would like another but it’s not at the top of my gun list.

The Saiga is the lightest recoiling shotgun I have ever fired with buckshot and slugs. Less felt recoil than Benelli's M4 and 10 times less than an 870. Mine was already converted to pistol grip and it came with a 5 round Russian mag and I bought a 10 round America mag and 20 round drum.

The mags are the biggest problem. All the American mags are of poor quality and expensive but at the same time much cheaper than the Russina. There are many stories of 10 round America mags failing. The 20 round drum is too big and uncomfortable. The drums were over $200 now they are down to $100. Loading is slow. You have to pull the bolt back with one hand and hold it then hit a button on the other side to hold the bolt open, only then can you insert a new mag. I think there is an after market bplt hold open add on but its going to cost $$$. I guess a lot of practice would help but it would be faster to load any other shotgun. The good 5 and 8 round Russian mags are very expensive and the 8's are hard to find.

Mine had about a 100 round break in period and after that it ate everything I feed it from birdshot to buckshot. They are cool guns but they are not cheap and to me the mags are a big issue.

Old PO2

Fired a few rounds though one this past Saturday, side by side with my Mossberg 590 (18 1/2" bbl, IC Choke). Recoil did seem to be much lighter with the same loads in the Saiga. Both seemed to pattern about the same with #4 (3") buckshot. Accurate? It's a shotgun. No functional problems with about 50 rnds through the Saiga, 25 through the 590 and three shooters.

I think I'll stick with my Mossy for home defense and my 870 Wingmaster (blued/walnut) for hunting. I must confess to some prejudice, as I've used pumps since the early '70's. I thought the Saiga was interesting.

daniel17319

I own a saiga 12 and every issue these guys brought up negatives can be adressed, thier is a huge aftermarked for these things that can do anything you can amagine as far as improveing ergonomics. they do have a lrbho made by cadiz arms, as well as h and k sights that you can have welded on. I dont know the s12 is light years a head anything else out thier. detachable magazines thats all i got to say they are better, also the first round "deforming" can be adressed with a little tlc and know how, its a great platform go to saiga forums youll see how much this thing rocks 20 round drums etc, simply cant be beat buy anything out there includeing the beneli.

daniel17319

I own a saiga 12 and every issue these guys brought up negatives can be adressed, thier is a huge aftermarked for these things that can do anything you can amagine as far as improveing ergonomics. they do have a lrbho made by cadiz arms, as well as h and k sights that you can have welded on. I dont know the s12 is light years a head anything else out thier. detachable magazines thats all i got to say they are better, also the first round "deforming" can be adressed with a little tlc and know how, its a great platform go to saiga forums youll see how much this thing rocks 20 round drums etc, simply cant be beat buy anything out there includeing the beneli.

mgraffam

Well, it all depends on what you want. With respect, saying that it "can't be beat" is nonsense.

I love my S12. Runs real smooth, and I can cycle anything from low brass wallyworld target shot on up. The issues mentioned in this thread can largely be rectified with some extra work and money, you're right. But even so; the S12 isn't perfect.

The single biggest drawback to the S12 is that there is no usable round-select drill.

Depending on what you'd use an S12 for - that may, or may not be a big deal. For home defence scenarios, and as a race gun - its not an issue at all.

As a general purpose combat shotgun, it can be much more of an issue. Combine that with the fact that an S12 can't cycle very light loads (less than lethal stuff), and it is simply not an option for LEOs, for example.

In terms of raw capacity and rate of fire? The S12 is king. ROF is greater than the AA12, even.

In terms of all-around utility? The Benelli M3 (pump/semi-auto selectable) would be my choice.

Just think of it this way. You need to defend your life, and in front of you is a NIB Mossberg 500, a tuned-up Tromix Saiga 12, and a case of beat up, muddy, half-crushed 12ga buckshot of unknown origin.

Do you trust that S12 to cycle the cruddy ammo? Or do you take the pump?

"Can't be beat" is just a matter of which rules you're playing by.

tlong

I have one that was sent out to be converted with the grip and trigger group. It barks just fine with a drum or 8 round mag. Just a novelty really. I have $300 in it. I understand they have gone up.

gryan

Probably the most compelling thing about the Saiga out of the box is the detachable mag. What shotgun that is available at a reasonable cost can you have a 14” barrel and 20 rounds of ammo in the mag.
An out of the box Saiga is just mediocre with a bad trigger pull, bad ergonomics, and a short sight radius. A Saiga modified to AK configuration is an experience.