M14 Forum

rangejunkie

Well I dont really know where to start. I have come across a bunch i mean a bunch of model 1897 (they are my grandfathers) What I would like to know is if there are anything with these guns that I need to know about or some that are more rare than others... and when were they manufactured. Just looking to see how old they are. I know that some have rarely been shot while others look almost wore out. I also do know that there is a "Black Diamond" model in this collection. Is there any info on that one in particular.

Thanks for the help. Yall have always been very informative.

IC2(SS)19Z50C5

I have two 1897s, one by serial number is a 1900-1901 manufacture the other a little later. A 1905-07 era manufacture. Get yourself a hard copy of the Blue Book of Gun Values, 27th Edition, by S. P. Fjestad. That will tell you by serial number the year(s) of manufacture. And I suggest never shooting anything but low brass in the older guns. The one I mentioned earlier, the 1900-1901 make, is setting right behind me, it and my extended tube M870 Remington are my number 1 pair of “comfort items” that come out of the safe every night.

BTW, both of mine looked “wore out” too, the one behind me I had black makerized and it never, ever acts it’s age when called upon.. Model 97 Winchester pump shotguns are totally kick ass!!!

davecampperry

The 'Black Diamond' is presumably a single shot break open shotgun. Sorry, but it has no collector value, and is worth only what someone is willing to give for it. These were produced in the early 1900s to 1940. They were inexpensive, some were parts guns out of slightly irregular parts. Other names include Long Tom, Empire, St. Louis, Central City, etc. Some even have Damascus barrels, which will (eventually) rupture, even with low power shells.
Winchester's 1897 was designed by J M Browning. Their value does not keep up with inflation, and have little collector value because over one million were made. Some are 'solid frame' and some are 'take down'. They seldom break, and almost never wear out. HTH, dave

KYShooter

I agree. Collector wise, a few will have some value but most really don't because there were so many made. As for things to watch for, these are old designs without the safety features of modern firearms. Handling one with gloves on can almost guarantee that you'll have the hammer slip causing an AD. If you take them out shooting, BE VERY ATTENTIVE TO ALL THE SAFETY PROCEDURES REGARDING HANDLING OF FIREARMS (I know, you should anyway but felt the need to shout it).

I have had four but still have a 1902 model that, somewhere along the line, was parkerized. Has pretty much no collector value but the shotgun handles and points better than any other shotgun I've tried. It has taken loads of doves, squirrels, and ducks (way back when lead shot was allowed). It does have enough wear that it often now fails to release shells from the tube.

tmcfalls

Since Cowboy Action Shooting has really taken off 1897s are getting harder and harder to find, I expect they will climb in value.

Rainman74

Checkout the site for born-on dates in my thread "Shotgun History". I have one that was born in 1899. I have used it in cowboy action shooting with light target loads with on problems.

brassmagnet

I suggest doing a Google search on the 1897 Win. Tons of info and pics available.

Seventh Fleet

I have two really nice 97's one of which is a WW1 Trench Gun, the other is a field grade with two barrels, full and cylinder bore. I got mine the hard way, I inherited them when my dad passed back in 89.

7th

rangejunkie

well the "black diamond" isnt a break open. It is still the pump but I thought I saw it in a old copy of the blue book value for guns when I was younger and it looked like a collectors piece, but like I said I am no expert. What I can say is the one with the black diamond marks on the side of the buttstock looks like an upper class gun. Not just plain jane it has nice checkering and nicer wood along with better blueing and not so much wear and tear. Oh yeah what can cause these guns to jam b/c one of them the part that comes down (the breech ?) ist stuck and it will not pump forward or backwards... need to fix it. any ideas? As far as value of the guns... not to be a stickler or sound ungrateful but i could care less. I am going to be getting these guns from my grandfather and I will probably never get rid of them.

siefly

Your 1897 might be jamming because the older ones were chambered for a 2 1/2" shell VS 2 3/4" shell. I had to get mine bored out a little to get it to work properly. Have a gunsmith check it......

Siefly

M1A's r BEST

If my memory is correct there was a "high grade" version/model of the Model 97 called the Black Diamond. Seems like I've seen that name associated with trap shooting/skeet shooting purposes.

I've had a model 97 for over 30 years. It's different, its solid, its a John Browning design and it kicks too hard for a gun as heavy as it is. I went back to my Ithaca M37 (another John Browning design).

My father-in-law said there were 3 "models" over the years. He said the first two would wear and would go off on you when you pumped the gun (sometimes). Mine was made in the 1950's and he said it would be okay. I don't know where he got his info from but I figured I'd pass it on.

The takedown guns are nice. Easy to break down and carry around in a smaller package.

rangejunkie

Well the problem with that is that there is no shell in the gun. My grandfather a few years back went to pump it and it got stuck with the breech in the open position. So I dont have a clue on what could have happened.

I think that is the Black Diamond version I was talking about. Now that you mention the skeet shooting I think I remember that he told me when I was younger that the guy he bought the gun from used to skeet shoot.

Earthquake

I have one of the Chinese 97 Trench guns, Its not as finely finished as a Winchester but it shoots fine, It takes a while to get used to the fact it has no disconnecter so if you still have you finger on the trigger when you close the bolt it will fire, I can get five rounds off faster then I can in my 870. I want to find a old Ithaca pump because they work the same way.

Casey

buchkshot

I've owned four in my life - still own one in riot gun configuration. Great guns, especially the earlier guns that had no disconnector - i.e., just hold the trigger and slam a new round forward and it fires. I wouldn't shoot high brass loads thru it if gun is worn out. Prior advice about gunsmith knowledgable in such firearms would be worth the money. Since they're a John Moses Browning made gun, they like grease, not oil, but grease. Cowboy action shooters are snarfing them up. HTH

equipment operator 2nd class

Winchester 1897 Black Diamonds came in three grades Tournament, Trap, and Pigeon.
Tournament being very plain(Black Ebony inlay on wrist), Special Trap Gun the bolt says TRAP GUN on it, and Pigeon Grade usually found with engraved field scenes on the receivers side and scroll engraving around the edges of the receiver and the Bolt will say Pigeon Grade.
Overall they are worth more than the run of mill 1897 Winchester. I remember when you could pickup a real decent 1897 shooter for around $250.00 now they can go for $400.00 and up. (the Black Diamonds go for more) I have about a dozen 1897's and shoot them for trap shooting when I do shoot trap.

EO 2nd class