M14 Forum

Lennyo3034

What do you guys use as home defense ammo? Is it different from inside the house vs investigating a noise outside? Right now I have first shot as a bean bag in case inaccidentally shot one of my roomates. Followed by 00 buck and then slugs. I was thinking BB or turkey type shot would be a better chance of hit though. My loads are 3" mags. Would I be better off with something of a little less recoil?

Whatsinaname181

Hmmm. Lennyo, im not sure if what youre doing is such a good idea.

First of all, if youre in a situation where your life depends upon you using your firearm properly, a beanbag round isent going to cut it. If you decide to apply lethal force, its for keeps and for real. I personally would not advice someone to keep a beanbag round in their home defense shotgun. thats just me.

Secondly, after about 5 or 10 feet BB/turkey shot will more or less lose its lethality/knockdown (a guesstimate). I dont feel that it would stop a determined assailant at anything less than point blank range, even with a choke.

Dont get all fancy pants about your loads. pick one and stick with it. you have roommates, i would advise double 00 buck or even 0 buck, but thats it- nothing lower. It will be enough to do what a defensive shotgun is supposed to do to humans, but it will also lose much of its lethality after 2 layers drywall, thus lessening the risk to your roomates and neighbors. Yes, its still easy to miss with a shotgun.

The use of a 300gr shotgun slug in close quarters where there is a chance of overpenetration being an issue is NOT adviseable. Shotgun slugs go for a while, and they riccochet and tumble more than say, a rifle round. No go in your environment. To put it in perspective, your basically shooting half a .50 BMG round.

Again, long story short- 00 or 0 buck will suit your needs just fine. If you want to kill someone, use a shotgun. If you plan to incapacitate someone, use a stun gun or mace, not a shotgun. Unless youre a police officer. My 2 cents.

"train as you fight, fight as you train"

devildog178

Buckshot is great for room clearing distances. Since you mentioned room mates you could consider #7 or #8 birdshot to avoid striking innocents on the opposite side of walls. I would avoid slugs due to their penetration and increased recoil. Also, 3" shells are unneccessary in the close confines of a house IMO. A couple slugs in a SideSaddle would give you a ready option for outdoors.

bigkicks

i think if u grab a weapon and make a decesion to engage it is lethal only shot. if i press the trigger it is because my life or loved ones lives depend on it. would not use a non lethal round, but that is me. in a hall less that 10 yards u shouldnt have any fliers with oo buck rounds.

as far as round choice, i would go with low recoil oo buck, it doesnt sound( and i cud be wrong) like u practice much with that weapon and the low recoil wud help u get ur second round on target a lot faster. i wud also put some slugs and extra oo in the side saddle like devildog had mentioned.

i wud leave the 3inchers for the field. aim straight, mount a good weaponlight at the end of that thing, and practice, practice,practice. not only with live rounds, dry fire as well. and run and gun through ur house, practice clearing the rooms. in a crisis we all fall back to our basics and the way we have trained. muscle memory!!

heyjowee

I agree with 181 about the bean bag. If you're willing to pull the trigger, you better be ready to end the life of that perpetrator. If you're using less than lethal, you obviously didn't feel that your life was in danger and didn't need to shoot which means you go to jail for injuring him. Shoot to kill, not to injure.

1. Get a light mounted to POSITIVELY identify friend or foe. I've read too many horror stories about how a simple light would have saved an innocent life.

2. Tell your roommates that you have a shotgun and are willing to use it. So don't try to pull any stupid pranks that would make you even suspect they're a threat.

3. If the only thing between you, the roommates, and neighbors are a few sheets of drywall/sheet rock, I would reconsider 00 and slugs. If I were to miss, the projectile would have to go through drywall, brick, neighbors brick, and neighbors drywall before hitting them. Even with the odds that wouldn't happen, I load 7 1/2 staggered with 00 and slugs in the shell holder. I can't think of anyone that would be standing after getting shot point blank with 7 1/2 followed up by 00.

4. Magnums are way overkill. High stress + more recoil + over penetration = uh ohs....

Walk through your house/apt to identify where you would most likely be engaging a target(hallway, garage, entryway, living room, kitchen) and where the rounds COULD go if you miss(windows, thin doors). Identify where you could afford to take a shot and where it would be too risky. You're responsible for those rounds regardless who or what they hit, so plan and practice. With planning/dry runs, you can identify fatal funnels, areas where you could have best concealment/cover while having full range of view or control of each room, and confidence you know what to do when the time comes.

Whatsinaname181

Yep. +1

Hobo Hilton

00

Swamp Rat

Avoid the less lethal stuff. Load up with buckshot. The minimum should be nothing smaller than 1 buck. Make sure to take different brands and pattern them before picking your load.

Lennyo3034

Yeah the idea with the beanbag was instead of IDing the target and exposing myself with a flashlight, was to just shoot first ask questions later and if I shot a roommate, oops sorry.

Come to think of it, it was my roommate that came up with this idea after a heavy night of drinking. He's also been hit with a beanbag before through a small amount of padding, he said it wasn't that bad. Probably not the best source to take home defense ideas from.

I'll pick up some reduced recoil buckshot after work.

pilotc7a

Back in vietnam all i carried was #4 buck..
18 pellets in a 2 3/4 round were a good street cleaner.
If you have to shoot, make it a kill. If not he may come back to kill you.
It still works

bigkicks

my dad stills uses #4's because of his nam experiences.

Lee D

these are what i keep in my 870 HD model, its devestating stuff....
http://www.winchester.com/Products/s...s/S12PDX1.aspx

SOCOM42

Inside the house, 2-3/4" 00 in 12ga's, #3 buck in daughters combat rigged 20 ga 1187 19-1/2" bbl.

3" shellls not needed indors, better control with 2-3/4"

double tap, upper center mass/throat followed by head shot. Need to bypass any body armor if worn.

Using a shotgun? use buckshot, if you need slugs, use a rifle.

In house I prefer my Thompson SMG or 870, outside in yard area, me, 14-1/2" m4 or IMI AR Galil. Daughter her 14-1/2" m4 or Inland para m1 carbine.

Using less than lethal as a civilian is NUTS! A, you could get sued. B, get your A$$ or someone else's A$$ killed.

IF YOU HAVE TO USE DEADLY FORCE, YOU HADE BETTER PLAN FOR SOME TYPE OF BODY COUNT, THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT.

LIVES HAVE TO BE IN DANGER TO JUSTIFY IT!

chumney

In a case of short distance of less than 20 feet #4 bird shot is plenty lethal. My load is first round #4 then the next two are 00 followed by 000 then a slug. To get to the shotgun I have a 45 and a 357.

Sweets

I favour the birdshot myself, or BB anyway- testing on backboards at the range shows me that in a 12g it will punch one big ragged hole at interior distances, sort of a piston effect. It won't penetrate interior walls as much as buckshot will, and would look better on you in court if it comes to that. BTW, a beanbag can be quite lethal at closer distances, last I knew. Do your research if you keep that as your first load. Cops are trained to shoot for an extremity, darned hard to do in the dark and with no backup if you miss.