M14 Forum

Sweets · October 17th, 2011, 08:40 AM

Went out for ruffed grouse (better known in the places I go as "pat'rige" or "paw'trige") last Friday. Since seriously pouring rain was in the forecast, decided to take my 870 Marine Magnum instead of the double barrel 12G I've used for decades. Installed a magazine plug cut from a from a plastic coathanger (legal limit for all hunting locally is 2+1) and away I went. Of course it quickly turned hot, bright, and sunny and the old DBBL could have gotten a nice tan, but never mind. I wasn't worried about the cylinder choke because the leaves are still on the trees here and you wouldn't likely see a grouse any more than 20 feet away and in the end I saw none (here, one ruffed grouse requires at least 5 miles of walking- in a good year). Did see a monster white tail: of course if I'd had a rifle and a tag and it was in season, all I would have seen would have been dozens of grouse....

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else uses what are normally self defense shotguns for game hunting and if so what your experiences are? Doing some practising on the go, menacing robins and such, I was far from sure I would be able to get the thing to point properly in the 2 second window I would have had if anything legal had flown up, but I'm not sure if that was due to the gun design or my steady use of the other gun over the years (an old New England saying is 'Beware the man with only one gun').

usndoc · October 17th, 2011, 10:05 AM

I shoot skeet with my Mossberg M590A1 :-) I have also done the same thing and plugged it for turkey hunting season before. I am much quicker on target with it and that cylinder bore works wonders close in. heh... It also has to do with being very familiar with the gun and comfortable with it. The last time I shot skeet in a group I would shoot clean up. The guy on the line would miss his 2 shots and then I would dust the skeet before it hit the ground. I have considered buying another barrel for it that would be more appropriate for skeet and hunting.

Use what you have and you know will make a clean kill.

Pike · October 18th, 2011, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usndoc

I shoot skeet with my Mossberg M590A1 ... The last time I shot skeet in a group I would shoot clean up. The guy on the line would miss his 2 shots and then I would dust the skeet before it hit the ground.

Just out of curiosity, where do you shoot skeet?

I've never heard of any skeet field, ever, anywhere, even once, allowing such a practice.

mercman · October 18th, 2011, 04:12 AM

I've also shot trap with my 870 18" cylinder bore. I did better than a fellow who had a fancy Perazzi (smirk!). I think the the big rock on his pinky ring was throwing his aim off.

While not using it for hunting game, I did use if for taking down several members of a feral dog pack that I caught stalking my son several years ago. Worked very well for that purpose.

Short barrelled shotguns are a steady diet for hunting in eastern states where the is a high population density.

Pike · October 18th, 2011, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercman

Short barrelled shotguns are a steady diet for hunting in eastern states where the is a high population density.

Just curious...what does population density have to do with barrel length?

mercman · October 18th, 2011, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike

Just curious...what does population density have to do with barrel length?

Shotguns are used vs rifles because of the range of buckshot vs rifle bullets. Short barrels (18-22") are used to allow hunters to navigate in thick brush that's found in many eastern states. I'm from Illinois originally where I hunted and also hunted in Missouri, Kentucky and Indiana. Shotguns are the legal hunting long guns in many areas of these states.

Pike · October 18th, 2011, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercman

Shotguns are used vs rifles because of the range of buckshot vs rifle bullets. Short barrels (18-22") are used to allow hunters to navigate in thick brush that's found in many eastern states. I'm from Illinois originally where I hunted and also hunted in Missouri, Kentucky and Indiana. Shotguns are the legal hunting long guns in many areas of these states.

Ah, I thought you meant that short-barreled shotguns were for some reason better in more populated areas than longer-barrelled shotguns.

Many more populated areas out East ban rifle hunting because they seem to think that shotguns are "safer" in more populated areas, but I'm not sure that's true.

A rifled slug from a shotgun, fired at a 30° angle, will go just as about far as a rifle bullet (the difference isn't all that significant).

However, where a high-velocity soft-point or hollow-point rifle bullet will upset and fragment if it hits much more than a blade of grass, a rifled slug will barrel like a freight train through grass, twigs, branches, saplings and cinderblock walls and still carry lethal energy.

And if fired at a 30° angle so that they travel maximum distances, a shotgun rifled slug will do a lot more damage (due to its greater mass) than the lighter rifle bullet (which at that point will be traveling no faster than the slug).

So in some ways, high power rifles are actually safer in populated areas, but trying to explain that to the media can be like trying to explain quantum mechanics to cattle.

usndoc · October 18th, 2011, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike

Just out of curiosity, where do you shoot skeet?

I've never heard of any skeet field, ever, anywhere, even once, allowing such a practice.

Lots of private land and farms here. Several guys get together with throwers and cases of targets.

Its actually quite common around here to have 2 shooters on the line.

sgtterry309 · October 18th, 2011, 06:30 AM

Defense/Tactical shotguns are all I've ever owned. I've hunted with a Mossberg 590, Benelli Nova Tactical and now a Weatherby PA 459. All have done the job just fine.

Butzbach · October 18th, 2011, 06:41 AM

But that's another story. All I have ever hunted with is Rem 870 police shotguns.

Instinctive hip shots on rising quail with number 5 shot are surprisingly possible. Treed squirels are a gimmie. My grass is blue and my shottys are scoped by the way.

Your mileage may vary.

Sweets · October 18th, 2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike

Ah, I thought you meant that short-barreled shotguns were for some reason better in more populated areas than longer-barrelled shotguns.

Many more populated areas out East ban rifle hunting because they seem to think that shotguns are "safer" in more populated areas, but I'm not sure that's true.

A rifled slug from a shotgun, fired at a 30° angle, will go just as about far as a rifle bullet (the difference isn't all that significant).

However, where a high-velocity soft-point or hollow-point rifle bullet will upset and fragment if it hits much more than a blade of grass, a rifled slug will barrel like a freight train through grass, twigs, branches, saplings and cinderblock walls and still carry lethal energy.

And if fired at a 30° angle so that they travel maximum distances, a shotgun rifled slug will do a lot more damage (due to its greater mass) than the lighter rifle bullet (which at that point will be traveling no faster than the slug).

So in some ways, high power rifles are actually safer in populated areas, but trying to explain that to the media can be like trying to explain quantum mechanics to cattle.

On my early outings with him, my dad used to give me a 30/30 rifle with one bullet to carry in my pocket (like Barney Fyfe). He said he would prefer to get shot once up close with a rifle as opposed to 100 or more pellets from a shotgun (we weren't well informed about shot size in those days; I think #4 was considered ridiculously small).

Re some other posts, you want as short a barrel as possible in Eastern brush country. I've actually hunted over grouse that were smart enough to fly up as I passed between 2 trees- they knew all about swinging the barrel and how to prevent it. I started having success with them when I learned to trip between trees with maximum speed. That was heavily hunted country, mind you.

ATCDoktor · October 19th, 2011, 01:09 PM

While not quite a "Riot" gun, I've hunted small game with this and have been pleased with it's performance.

It's a Safety Harbor Firearms KEG 12 (an 870 with a 3" magnum reciever and a 7" barrel).

With Federal 3" magnum #2 shot turkey loads (with control flite wads) I've taken Jack Rabbits at 35 yards with ease.

mercman · October 19th, 2011, 02:45 PM

Yum! hasenpfeffer!

Sweets · October 20th, 2011, 08:59 AM

I take that to be a jackrabbit, which are very similar to our northerly next-to-impossible-to-cook-so-anybody-will-eat-them snowshoe hares. Aside from hassen.. ummm, the German dish as above that I can't spell right now, is there a recipie for tasty jackrabbit?

1KPerDay · October 20th, 2011, 09:55 AM

Nobody eats jacks around here. They're loaded with disease.