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sling adjustment/sight adjustment

This is a discussion on sling adjustment/sight adjustment within the Rifle Competition forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; Originally Posted by daniel17319 Fly boy thats cute. Im not going to use a shooting jacket ill use a glove for shooting. I know some ...


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Old September 9th, 2016, 07:40 AM   #16
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Fly boy thats cute. Im not going to use a shooting jacket ill use a glove for shooting. I know some of you guys will have trouble understanding, or getting the fact that someone does not want to wear a shooting jacket. Kind of defeats the purpose of shooting a service rifle. Im in this to learn how to use my rifle and treat it like a TRADITIONAL KD range like the Army. I know none of you were probably in the army and did these kind of ranges outside of competition. Any way thanks for the advice on helping me with my shooting positions. And for all the mall ninjas or whatever you guys call them now days 3 years iraq Cav scout, I'm in it to learn it not wear jackets that make no sense. Sorry if that doesn't make any sense.
You won't "learn it" without proper equipment. The more variables you can remove the better. This isn't rack grade rifles with ball ammo. Shooting Highpower in a tshirt with a rack grade gun and ammo may be fun, but it isn't going to teach you as much as you think. This isn't "combat training". KD never was. It was about teaching you to make good shots in a controlled environment so you could make reasonable shots in a less controlled environment.

I seem to recall that the Marine and Army team shooters all wear coats.... and the Marines at least used to wear them in training (the GP Maes coats are lousy, but better than nothing).

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Old September 9th, 2016, 08:52 AM   #17
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I seem to recall that the Marine and Army team shooters all wear coats.... and the Marines at least used to wear them in training (the GP Maes coats are lousy, but better than nothing).
I agree with missilegeek - shooters on military teams use shooting jackets and, in the past, the Marines used cotton shooting jackets for marksmanship training. The modern shooting jackets have evolved significantly but they were used even back in the very old days. The original shooting jackets were woolen military blouses with heavy cloth patches added to the elbows and to the shooting shoulder. These patches protected the shooter from the ground and the solid steel buttplate. Later, heavy cotton jackets were specially made which had padded patches on the elbows, the shooting shoulder and the bicep of the support arm (to protect the shooter from the sling). Later, the patches were made out of leather. Even later, the patches were made out of rubber with an anti-skid finish to reduce slippage especially after the cotton or leather patches became very smooth from usage. Up to this point, the jackets didn't supply any support, only protection. Then came leather and heavy nylon jackets. They did provide some level of support in the offhand position. Even later, so-called "hardback" jackets came along to provide even more support. These jackets had multiple layers of material in the back of the jacket to stiffen them even further. Even if someone does not desire to take advantage of the support offered by the more modern jackets, it is very prudent to use some sort of light shooting jacket to protect yourself from skinned elbows and bruised collar bones (for those with a less meaty physique) and biceps. With the advent of M16's, the bruised collar bones are virtually not going to happen but it is still a good possibility if you shoot an M14 type rifle. Pain get in the way of learning how to do something well. If you don't want to use a specialized shooting jacket, wear an old field jacket. I use to see lots of new shooters take that approach until they decide what kind of shooting jacket they wanted. I have recently began using a UCP military jacket with rubber elbow pads for pop-up rifle matches. It is minimal but works very well for this sort of shooting. Rick

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:13 AM   #18
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Ill probably get a jacket fellas maybe a light one we will see, I have done KD ranges in the Army with no equipment. I also have friends that were in the marines. NO JACKET GLOVE.

ill see..

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:15 AM   #19
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One last question, how do i adjust my sights, thanks for the help. NM match sights are they how do they compare to standard sights in adjustments.


thanks

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:22 AM   #20
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Ill probably get a jacket fellas maybe a light one we will see, I have done KD ranges in the Army with no equipment. I also have friends that were in the marines. NO JACKET GLOVE.

ill see..
Daniel, I believe that the USMC ceased using the cotton shooting jacket sometime after transitioning to the M16 rifle. Spending all day shooting a 5.56mm rifle is different than shooting a 7.62mm rifle. Also, if you sling the rifle up tight, a jacket (of just about any description) is very helpful. Rick

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:32 AM   #21
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One last question, how do i adjust my sights, thanks for the help. NM match sights are they how do they compare to standard sights in adjustments.


thanks
Daniel, M14 NM sights are just like standard GI sights except for: 1) each click in windage is 1/2 MOA; and 2) by rotating the hooded rear sight, you get 1/2 MOA elevation adjustments. The aperture in the hooded rear sight is eccentric by about 0.002" so 180 degrees of rotation moves the aperture vertically by 0.004" or 1/2 MOA. It's very simple. While I really like the NM sights due to their greater precision, your field of view is compromised and you do notice that less light passes through the aperture on overcast days. It's a trade off. Rick

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:33 AM   #22
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Sight adjustments are simpler than the subject of shooting coats, gloves, slings, etc. and not using those common items will not produce the best results without them regardless of knowledge of the sight system.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:35 AM   #23
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Ill probably get a jacket fellas maybe a light one we will see, I have done KD ranges in the Army with no equipment. I also have friends that were in the marines. NO JACKET GLOVE.

ill see..
The standards to rate "Expert" in the military are far removed from "NRA Expert".

Thanks from dist1646
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Old September 9th, 2016, 11:53 AM   #24
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Well, I may be old, but when I was at Ft. Benning, we gave up our "normal" KD range for a week so some Marines (maybe Reserves?) could practice and Qualify with M16s. They used padded jackets and leather shooting gloves. Not the same jackets we used, but the gloves were what 90+% of us used. BTW, we shot M14s.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 12:02 PM   #25
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Sight adjustments are simpler than the subject of shooting coats, gloves, slings, etc. and not using those common items will not produce the best results without them regardless of knowledge of the sight system.
Heres the thing, I'm in this for the marksmanship training I'm competing against myself.

Can you help me with the sights?

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Old September 9th, 2016, 12:17 PM   #26
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Heres the thing, I'm in this for the marksmanship training I'm competing against myself.

Can you help me with the sights?
Rickgman's response isn't sufficient?

The elevation knob gives you +/- 1 MOA in elevation per click. The eccentric hood gives you a half up or down from that (the notch is on the "up" side). Windage is half minute per click. Issue sights are 1 minute in elevation and windage. From a 100 yard zero, 2 minutes will get you to 200 yards, 3 more minutes for 300 yards and 10-12 more for the last 300 yard to 6. That'll get you on paper.

On the issue of "marksmanship training", if you can out shoot your equipment, you aren't learning anything. If you really want to learn to shoot, start with smallbore.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 12:31 PM   #27
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Can you help me with the sights?
I don't think you'll have to worry much about the 1/2 minute hood. On my best days I have a 1 minute wobble in my NPA (probably closer to 2 MOA). I can't imagine what a bare skinned elbow and sweaty palm would add to my wobble at 600 yds.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 12:57 PM   #28
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Std. issue sights are 1 moa/click, elevation and wind. NM sights are 1/2moa with the hood as mention-elevation, wind is 1/2moa for the pinion on NM has 64tpi versus 32 or issue sights giving 1/2moa adjustments. Come ups normally are as follows:
1-200 2 clicks
2-300 3 clicks
3-600 10 clicks
6-800 10 clicks
8-900 5 clicks
9-1000 clicks
These come ups are subject to the ammunition you are using and conditions at the time of firing, hot, cold, etc., etc. Also your initial zero for 100 will normally require some 7-10 clicks for the 100yd target, that varies from rifle to rifle and load to load. Suggest you double check your sight alignment meaning that if you note your front sight is moveable from right to left in a dovetail/screw arrangement. Place your rear sight in the center hash mark, line up front sight accordingly, establishing mechanical zero if you will. If front sight is off left or right much it will require you to move rear sight accordingly and that consumes how much wind adjustment you have available one way or the other. Hopefully once both are lined up in center you will require little adjustment to center groups. Keep in mind that the rear sight is moved either right or left to correct shot placement and front sight is opposite, left is right, right is left. On the elevation drum there is a small slotted screw head, make sure that is snubbed up well for if not your rack/aperture will not go up and down as is should. Wind drum has a small slotted screw head and if you over tighten it you will have difficult time in rotating drum as you want.
You can leave it that way if you want and to ease movement press in on elevation drum and eases rotating of wind drum. Don't leave the sight with that wind drum screw so tight for long periods of time for will stress the spring washer, weaken it over time. Snub it back up prior going to the range and you are good to go then. Simple isn't it compared to coats, gloves, slings, mat, spotting scope position, etc.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 01:30 PM   #29
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Fellas im not talking about the Army Shooting team or the Marine shooting team.


Im chaplain of the VFW post 2528 i have asked around no one uses currentlythe shooting jackets.

Also I was 19d20p if you know what that means it means i spent some time training going to ranges. None of this Nasty Girl stuff None of the KD ranges which is a bout 5 i have been to and ran safety on or anything had shooting jackets or gloves.

You are right it is easier to qualify on a military range, i think i got a 248 with no gear.

I know people on here have more "posts" counts then I do but i can assure i know what I'm talking about. Im not trying to get posts counts here or any of that just trying to learn and shoot.

I retired early from the army due to injures over there i was there for 3 years...

Thanks again I wish some of you lived locally and we could do some shooting.

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Old September 9th, 2016, 02:35 PM   #30
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So you questions are not answered?..
What exactly do need our thoughts on?

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