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Cmp/nra service rifles with scopes?

This is a discussion on Cmp/nra service rifles with scopes? within the Rifle Competition forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; Originally Posted by NMC_EXP Rick Does the military use anything but red dot / holographic type optics? As in are conventional crosshair type scopes used ...


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Old January 6th, 2016, 05:51 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by NMC_EXP View Post
Rick

Does the military use anything but red dot / holographic type optics? As in are conventional crosshair type scopes used on M16s by typical riflemen or only by snipers?

I do shoot some smallbore and finally did start using a scope when allowed. I agree that holding off/favoring is a big advantage. The top level SM shooters can and do hold off very effectively with irons. I'm not in that crowd.
The most common scopes are the Aimpoint CCO (a red dot scope), the EOTech (a red dot scope) and the Trijicon ACOG (a bullet drop compensation reticle scope). However, there are other scopes in the inventory that have conventional reticles (some being mil dot reticle scopes). I suspect that many of the later scopes are intended for DMR or Spec Ops usage. There are Nightforce 1 - 4X 24mm scopes in the inventory and I believe there are some Leupold Mark 4 scopes, as well. There is obviously not the standardization that once existed. Rick

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Last edited by rickgman; January 6th, 2016 at 06:16 PM.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 02:23 PM   #122
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CMP service rifle/pistol rules were posted...

6.1.1 M16/AR15-Type Rifles The rifle must an M16 U. S. Service Rifle or a similar AR15-type commercial rifle that is derived from the M16 service rifle design. The following specific rules apply to this type of rifle:
* Must be chambered for the 5.56 x 45 mm NATO (.223) cartridge.
* Must be designed or modified so that only semi-automatic fire is
possible.
* The gas operating system must be fully operable and adhere to the original M16 rifle design (i. e. Stoner design, gas impingement system) or have a piston-operated gas system.
* The receiver and handguard must be machined as separate parts.
* The barrel may be no longer than the standard A2 barrel length of 20 inches (20 3/8 inches if measured from the back of the barrel extension); flash suppressors are not required, but if the barrel has a flash suppressor, the total length of the barrel, measured from the back of the barrel extension to the target end of the flash suppressor shall not exceed 21 5/8 inches.
* Quad rails or similar hand guards may be used. The front sling swivel may be attached to the hand guard, but must be fixed and located 13.25 in. (+/- 0.5 in.) from the forward edge of the magazine well on M16 configured rifles or 8.0 in. (+/- 05 in.) on M4 configured rifles.
* Upper receivers and/or barrels may not be changed during the firing of any event.
* The trigger pull must be at least 4.5 pounds.
* Metal or synthetic (polymer) magazines, standard issue or commercial equivalent, with standard service 20 or 30-round box magazine dimensions must be attached during the firing of all courses and in all positions. A 10-round magazine with the same external dimensions as a standard service 20-round box magazine may be used. A dummy magazine with a ramp for single shot loading may be used if this magazine has the same external dimensions as the standard service 20- round box magazine.
* The rifle may have an optical sight (reflective sights are considered optical sights) with a maximum power of 4.5X installed on the receiver. Variable scopes with a maximum of 4.5X are permitted. Only commercially manufactured scopes that were produced with a maximum magnification of 4.5X and that have a maximum objective lens diameter of 34 mm may be used. If an optical sight is used, the same optical sight configuration must be used in all stages of a course of fire (changing sights or sight mount configurations is not permitted). The centerline of
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an optical sight shall be no higher than 3.5 inches above the centerline of the bore.
* Alternatively, the rifle may be equipped with issue-type metallic front and rear sights with a maximum sight radius of 20.5 inches. Metallic sights, if used, must have an M16 type sight design with the rear sight in the carry handle and the front sight in the standard M16 location.
* Butt-stocks may vary in length and be either fixed or collapsible. Collapsible or adjustable length stocks may be adjusted during an event, but butt stocks that allow for other adjustments such as the cheek-piece height or butt-plate location may not be used.
* Only standard A1 or A2 type pistol grips may be used.
* An extended bolt release is permitted.
* Left-handed receivers that reverse the operational design features of M16/AR-type rifles are permitted.

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Old January 7th, 2016, 03:28 PM   #123
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Most match M1 and M14 rifles could be technically DQd now. Stock dimensions must now be "as-issued".

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Old January 7th, 2016, 04:05 PM   #124
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Most match M1 and M14 rifles could be technically DQd now. Stock dimensions must now be "as-issued".
Where does it say that?

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Old January 7th, 2016, 04:11 PM   #125
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Where does it say that?
Rule 6.1.2 bullet 8 and 6.1.3 bullet 8.

My match M14 complied with the dimensions in the table (which is gone) from the 2015 book. It does not now.

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Old January 7th, 2016, 06:44 PM   #126
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Maybe I missed it, but does it say anything on the weight limit for an ar type rifle with an optic?

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Old January 7th, 2016, 06:53 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by missilegeek View Post
Rule 6.1.2 bullet 8 and 6.1.3 bullet 8.

My match M14 complied with the dimensions in the table (which is gone) from the 2015 book. It does not now.
Missilegeek, what specifically is non-compliant about your M14 stock? Rick

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Old January 7th, 2016, 07:05 PM   #128
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Missilegeek, what specifically is non-compliant about your M14 stock? Rick
The overall dimensions. Most of the dimensions must now be "as issued" for the M1 and M14. The complete opposite of the approach they are taking for the AR.

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Old January 7th, 2016, 07:28 PM   #129
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The tapered forearm spec dq's every fajen sai sm and mcmillian

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Old January 7th, 2016, 07:34 PM   #130
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This is what it says for the M14 rifle

Quote:
Stock dimensions must comply with original stock dimensions, except
that stocks may be no more than 2 inches wide at a point immediately to
the rear of the front band, no more
than 2.5 inches wide at the front and
rear of the receiver, and have a continuous taper from receiver to front
band. The width at the receiver may be carried through to the butt plate

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Old January 7th, 2016, 07:42 PM   #131
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Just checked a USGI NM beech stock and that is with in the dimensions.

Definitely weird though that they are tightening the restrictions on M1 and M14 but loosening them on the AR.

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Old January 7th, 2016, 08:41 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by aloreman View Post
The tapered forearm spec dq's every fajen sai sm and mcmillian
my mcmillan and heavy NM wood stock fits under the spec. I think they are trying to dq the EBR type stocks and other pistol grip type stocks.

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Old January 7th, 2016, 09:15 PM   #133
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my mcmillan and heavy NM wood stock fits under the spec. I think they are trying to dq the EBR type stocks and other pistol grip type stocks.
Then they would just say "No pistol grips" or "No aluminum chassis"

Instead they have a very specific width to adhere to.

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Old January 7th, 2016, 09:31 PM   #134
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Then they would just say "No pistol grips" or "No aluminum chassis"

Instead they have a very specific width to adhere to.
go ahead and take an EBR to the nationals, where the CMP tech inspects your rifle, and see if it pass tech inspection. it won't. there are too many different types other than original configuration to list, they just want original configuration type stocks. they are not trying to limit heavy NM stocks. my mcmillan is well within the spec.
The rulebooks are always clear as mud, year after year.

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Old January 8th, 2016, 06:21 AM   #135
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Maybe I missed it, but does it say anything on the weight limit for an ar type rifle with an optic?
It isn't there. Weight it up till your heart's content.

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