M14 Forum

Vandal

So I know the answers are out there in many different threads, but perhaps you guys can summarize what I need to buy or do to prepare to enter competitions. I am in the market for a standard M1a and I am not too sure which one to go for. I have my eyes on the Loaded model, but will it be any match against the expert shooters and their serious rifles? I think service rifle competitions is where I'd like to get into, but I'm not opposed to High Power ones either.

Basically, is the Loaded M1a a sufficient model to start with, or am I better off saving up for the super match? I have also heard the Loaded and NM versions have tighter tolerances and do not stand up to adverse conditions as well as a standard with USGI parts? I don't want to own multiple battle rifles, as I'd rather have one I can use for SHTF AND competition shooting. I'd like to clear all of this up.

Once I find a competition I'm interested in, what do I do next? Do I just show up with the rifle slung on my back? Or still in its case?

How about all the equipment I need (mags, mats, slings, gloves, scope, etc)?

Thanks for your answers.

timrb

I know this is the wrong forum to make such a suggestion, but if you want to get into high power rifle competition you should get an AR15. It is better than the M1A in every way. I shot my M1A in service rifle competition for years, and finally tried an AR15. ("You mean there's a reason 99 percent of service rifle shooters use them?") I was dumbfounded at how much better it is.

That said, a few purists still shoot the big gun, and there's not a thing wrong with that.

The best way for you to get into high power will be to contact a local club. They will be able to tell you what gear you need to bring. (Quite likely they will have loaner coats, scopes, rifles, etc. specifically to help newcomers.)

Tim

N258RE

+1

the soul less little black bitch is cheaper to shoot, keep shooting, and easier to shoot well

call around some local clubs that run matches and get the low down, then show up you WILL have fun don't worry about who you are competing against, that guy is YOU, just try to do better than the last match each time and/or learn what you could have done better. and have FUN!

82nd ABN

I just went to my first match a couple of weeks ago and I was the only one shooting an M14 the other 23 guys were shooting AR-15's. I built a NM -15 as well. I am not shooting it in comps. Does my SM stack up to a NM 15? Yes. I did a side by side comparison and five shots with the AR and five shots with the 14 all were in the x ring off of bags at 100 yards. Built right they are equally accurate. Are you going to hold a candle to the AR-15s with a loaded or standard, sorry to say not a chance. Maybe if you grab a loaded and have it bedded you can. I know I am going to get slammed for what I just wrote.
A little bit about my two rifles.
My 14 is a rear lugged LRB M14SA Krieger 1/10 heavy match barrel CM. The only other parts that are not GI are a repro FH, I refused to grind off the lug on a GI one to make it NY compliant, sadlak spring guide and sadlak tin piston. Built by me. bedded by derrick martin Accuracy speaks. All match mods BH 175 gr Match ammo
AR-15 LRB lower Krieger HBAR 1/7.7 Geiselle service rifle match trigger. I assembled the lower I sent the barrel to John Hollinger to build the upper. He pins the rear sight and machines flats on the barrel for set screws on the FSB rather than drill a hole through the barrel for a pin to hold the FSB. These two things I cant do so thats why I sent it out. Ammo 75 gr BH match.
The rifles are equally as accurate. I think the 14 has an edge in high winds.

If you can hold out get the SM. Can you go to a match with a standard or a loaded and have the time of your life? Big time very big time. I am totally hooked. By all means get out there and start somewhere regardless what you have. You will seriously be hooked and have a great time doing so. You don't have to start off with a match rifle to have fun. I am not shooting against everyone else I am shooting against me.
Stuff you will need aside from the rifle
Shooting matt, foul weather gear, spotting scope with stand, glove, chamber flag. This is the minimum. I don't even have a spotting scope or matt yet. I get loaners form the league I am in. The league I am in has everything. All you need to do is show up with your ammo and you can shoot.
Whatever you decide to buy, just get out there and do it because aside from jumping out of airplanes in the army, its the second most fun thing I ever did with my cloths on.

KYShooter

I can only speak to High Power competition. The Loaded model, with a new, tight, stock, is capable of shooting quite good enough to keep you in the game. They seem to have excellent barrels on them and with the 1/2 MOA windage adjustments and tuned triggers, they do well.

I started out with a Loaded model then upgraded it to NM configuration (bedded the action, installed a hooded rear sight, and unitized the gas cylinder). With today's steel based bedding, I'm not sure that the SM's rear lug is as important as it used to be.

So, in my opinion, yes, the loaded model will get you started but without, at least, doing a bedding job, accuracy will start to degrade soon after putting the rounds downrange that one normally does when shooting, and practicing, HP competition.

I retired my M1A this year (after competing with it for 5 years) and went back to the dark side for HP competition.

JAILDOG

First welcome to the forum and competition shooting. The loaded will get you in the game and you should have fun. The loaded will keep you working against the match set up guns, but in the end will make you a better marksman. You will know when you progress because your scores and groups will plateau and you wont seem to do anything right to improve. It may be the gun, ammo or you. When that time comes upgrade your rifle with a unitized gas system, bed it and move on. People get to wrapped up in the bell and whistles, but its the stock nut that makes the difference.

vanagonjon

I'm with you, I shot my first real match yesterday after joining a club this spring and shooting practice almost every week since then.
If you can find a club that has a high power rifle team, ask to show up at a match or practice to get a feel for the club. The club I joined is a RIFLE club, and there are some outstanding shooters that are very willing to give you advice and assistance.
BTW there were 40 competitors there yesterday, it was a league match. I saw one Garand, three or four M14 types, many AR types and lots of match rifles. Everyone appeared to have a good time. I shot a 409 with 3 or 4 X's and was very happy with that score, but I enjoyed the atmosphere and freindly chat most of all.

John

Eagle 1

Good advice from Jaildog and KYShooter. I did the same thing, started with the loaded M1A and had it upgraded to a NM. A loaded or NM will get you to an Expert card with good ammo if you do your part. N258RE and timrb are right though about the mousegun. Easier and more forgiving to shoot in HP matches. Significantly less expensive across the board too. The 77 and 80gr loads don't give up much at 600 yards under most conditions. I'm another defector to the AR this year. My best scores have come with the mousegun.

If I had any advice to give about the whole thing, if you are dead set about competing with the M1A, start with a loaded model, learn to shoot it well from position and then upgrade as your skills improve and if you become serious about competing with it. If you're lucky, you'll have to re-barrel it whe it needs to be re-bedded. It may need re-bedding sooner though. If you want to be competitive and spend less, go with the AR. It will be easier to learn to shoot it well. The M1A will make you a better shooter at the end of the day I believe.

Start with local club matches, ask lots of questions. You can start with two magazines, a piece of carpet, a GI web sling, a pair of binoculars, a sweatshirt and a work glove. Upgrade as you go and get advice from the guys you meet. Keep in mind that equipment will not buy you points and the most expensive stuff is not always the best for your particular needs.

Good Luck!

Eagle 1

timrb

And we have a winner...

One thing I would say, though, regardless of the type of rifle you end up with--buy the *very best* you can afford right off the bat. Beginners, more than anyone else, need very good rifles. Otherwise it's nearly impossible to troubleshoot your technique because you can't tell whether it was you or your rifle that put that last shot in the 8 ring. If you have a two minute rifle you will slow down your learning curve markedly.

Tim

JMGlasgow

I just started participating in High Power with my SM. I am the only guy to shoot the big stick at the local match. I still get hounded every time out about not having a shooting jacket and glove and a "proper shooting scope and stand. I tell them "just let me shoot" every time that is brought up. My last match was a CMP Garand match. I placed 3rd overall. I have placed as high as 2nd in the local NRA high power match. Ignore all the naysayers and shoot what you want to shoot and have fun. Maybe learn a thing or two.

I would recommend a shooting mat or something to lay down on. We shoot in the dirt and it gets hard on the knees and elbows.

My SM will out shoot my skill level any day of the week. And my father has a standard M1A that is very accurate with zero modifications and a synthetic stock.

davecampperry

My 'stock' answer is to go to the match with out your rifle. Take eye and ear protection, a stool to sit on, notebook and pencil, water and chow. Tell the match director you would like to be a 'file closer' on fourth (or last) relay. Go to the pits, pull the target for shooters on first and second relay, and when you get to the ready line you will understand more of what's going on than if I told you six times. Your fellow target puller will be third relay, so you get to see what you will need, and how to score. With no rifle to worry about, you won't have to worry about 'safety' so much, and can pay attention.

FICK_USMC

As a new competitor don't worry about how good your rifle is. You may have a lot of experience with your guns, but service rifle competition requires a full grasp of different positions of standing, sitting, prone, and use of the sling. Go to the matches, join a club, and ask for help. Most clubs offer clinics to get new shooters into the game. Look for them and go. Just jump in, and make some friends. They will help you. You will never get into it as long as you have reasons not to. Your M1A is fine. The AR's are easier, but if you learn the game you can do well with the big gun. Just go, learn, and set goals. Get your NRA classification and keep at it. Shoot the club matches, and venture out to regional and state matches. Go to the CMP website to find EIC (leg) matches, and drive to them even if they are hours away. You will become a ammunition reloader. You will help others get started as you set higher goals for yourself. Go to the National Matches, make the P100, and eventually your DR badge. It's a big new world of people and places. Your guns have a new purpose other than collecting dust, or the object of doomsday SHTF scenarios. You will think less and less of zombie hoard BS, and become a rifleman.