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The BATFE answer on domestication of a Chinese M14

9K views 40 replies 22 participants last post by  tonyben 
#1 ·
I asked for an answer from the BATFE on which of the twenty foreign named parts exist on a Chinese M14 rifle. I received an answer in the mail today.

I have my March 26, 2007 request and the BATFE's May 21, 2007 reply in .pdf files. You may have a copy of these files by sending a request to me at leeace99@hotmail.com So, now we know what "the answer" is to this question. The canon and FAQs have been updated. These document files have also been added to the M14 Rifle Library DVD.

From Title 27 Code of Federal Regulations revised April 01, 2006:

Sec. 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or
agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political
subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Sec. 478.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into
or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the
replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings - YES
(2) Barrels - YES
(3) Barrel extensions - no
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions) - no
(5) Muzzle attachments - YES
(6) Bolts - YES
(7) Bolt carriers - no
(8 ) Operating rods - YES
(9) Gas pistons - YES
(10) Trigger housings - YES
(11) Triggers - YES
(12) Hammers - YES
(13) Sears - YES
(14) Disconnectors - YES
(15) Buttstocks - YES
(16) Pistol grips - no
(17) Forearms, handguards - YES
(18 ) Magazine bodies - YES
(19) Followers - YES
(20) Floorplates - YES


So, where's the disconnector? I can't find such a named part in any of the USGI M14 manuals.

At any rate, we have an answer. My $0.02, replace the stock, hand guard, magazine assembly and then replace the muzzle attachment (bobbed or faux flash suppressor).
 
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#2 ·
Is the "disconnector the magazine latch? The BATFE regulation is not specific to the M14 hence the improper terminology, just a thought... On second thought, I'd rather be shooting right now!

Thanks again Different for bringing critical info to the masses DI5
 
#4 · (Edited)
Is the disconnector part of the auto fire group?

Thanks Different, email on the way.

FWIW, adding a US made FH (with or without a bayo lug) makes A Chinese rifle an illegal assault wepon. I see Chinese rifles set up like that frequently, and the owners have no idea. Adding 5 more US made parts from the "Evil" list makes it legal again. A magazine counts as 3 parts.
 
#5 ·
What they are referring to as a "disconnector" is labeled the "sear" for the M14. The M14/M1A sear takes the place of a disconnector in these rifles. It still only counts as one part, whether you refer to it as a disconnector or a sear.

It is just a terminology difference. As an example, the M16/AR15 family has a part that functions in an identical manner, yet it is labeled as a disconnect. Very likely, the ATF is just trying to cover all bases in case someone wants to argue that the M14 sear is actually a disconnector (disconnector is a more accurate and descriptive term for the part).
 
#6 · (Edited)
Southern Raider has another idea. He believes the "disconnector" is the top lugged portion of the trigger that holds the hammer hooks after the trigger is pulled and released, essentially a secondary sear.

So, it seems either the sear or the trigger is performing the function of two parts in the list of twenty named parts. The BATFE letter states that at least six of the named parts must be replaced (with American made parts) before "modifying" the Chinese M14. For the purpose of 18 USC 922 (r) [27 CFR 478.39], either the trigger or the sear will count as two parts. The USGI trigger and sear assembly was packaged as an assembly for spare parts. If you replace both the Chinese trigger and sear with a USGI assembly, that replaces three named parts. If the Chinese trigger and sear assembly were left in, the BATFE could say that those three named foreign parts (trigger, sear and disconnector) were still part of the rifle.

Another procedure to domesticate your Chinese rifle then is to replace the Chinese magazine (three named parts) and the Chinese trigger and sear assembly (three named parts). That leaves ten foreign named parts. Then you could attach evil features as you desire subject to state and local laws.
 
#7 ·
Southern Raider has another idea. He believes the "disconnector" is the top lugged portion of the trigger that holds the hammer hooks after the trigger is pulled and released, essentially a secondary sear.

So, it seems either the sear or the trigger is performing the function of two parts in the list of twenty named parts.
I agree with Southern Raider on this one Different. This was what I was telling you a couple years ago if you recallGI2
 
#10 ·
Thorough is putting in mildly!DI2
Thanks for your continued work researching the platform. I alway's wince at how vague the ATF writes law.I find it interesting that AFTER receiving express documentation directly from the BATF the a panel of experts, and make no mistake about it y'all research this enough (Shadow, Diff,Leokani, s.Raider) to be considered EXPERTS in a court of Law, cannot quite pinpoint the verbage.

I read it entirely different....They just list the parts. The weapon's operating system might not even use one of the listed parts, but if it does.....E.G. A striker fired weapon doesn't have a hammer, but it is listed.

But then I might be mistaken.....GI3


I have learned more about the M14 in the last 2 years than I learned in the first 25!!! Made some friends too!
 
#13 ·
Subject to evil feature restrictions at the state or local level, you can put as many American parts into or on to a Chinese M14 rifle as you wish.

If you have a Chinese M14 with all Chinese M14 parts, you cannot put an evil feature on it UNLESS you replace enough Chinese parts with American made parts so that there are no more than ten NAMED (list of twenty parts above) Chinese parts left on the rifle. Once that is done and there's no state or local law against the evil feature of your choice, THEN you can install said evil feature(s).
 
#19 ·
Paragraph #2 in my mind seems to contradict paragraph #1. I trust that my USGI bolt conversion on my early serial number Polytech is okay? Is it okay to put her in a USGI fiberglass stock, and use a USGI trigger group? I'm starting to think that it all of this legal stuff is not worth the bother, and that I should sell my Polytechs and stick to M1 Garands.
 
#14 ·
I asked Walt Kuleck at Fulton Armory his thoughts on what the "disconnector" is on the M14. His explanation is that it is the part of the M14 trigger that releases the hammer when the trigger is pulled. So, Southern Raider and Shadow were correct too. GITEN
 
#15 ·
Ok, I may have missed something, but, assuming they don't have any "evil features" (FH, bayonet lugs, etc), why can't a company import these rifles into the US? I'm assuming without the evil features they would be considered "sporting weapons".
 
#20 ·
The two paragraphs do not contradict each other as long you keep in mind that evil features are not allowed on Chinese receivers that have more than ten foreign named parts attached to them. A bolt is not an evil feature. Neither is a firing mechanism, a gas piston, a gas cylinder, an operating rod, a rear sight assembly, a front sight, or a traditional contour stock.

IF you want to install evil features on your Chinese receivered M14 you must not have more than ten foreign made named parts as far as federal law is concerned. You still have to comply with any state and local laws on evil features. Evil features are the pistol gripped stock, a telescoping or folding stock, or a functional flash suppressor.

If you don't understand this, don't add any evil features to your Chinese M14.
 
#22 ·
No problem. Remember too that many SA, Inc. M1A parts are made in Taiwan. Example, a SA, Inc. M1A firing mechanism (27 CFR 478.39 named parts - trigger, sear, disconnector, trigger housing) will have Taiwanese parts IF USGI parts were not used and the parts came out of a M1A built since the early 1980s.

If you domesticate your Chinese M14, be sure to use U. S. made parts.
 
#24 · (Edited)
OK now I'm confused.

I take a poly and install a USGI stock and USGI bolt, a US made bbl, a US made FS, and its still illegal untill I change out the Handguard if I use a import mag? but OK if I use a USGI mag? keeping the poly: oprod and spring, trigger group and gas cyl and piston intact. I count 12 imported parts with the imported mag. am I correct?

I apologize for the question Different. I thought I had this straight and now I'm not sure.
GS
 
#27 · (Edited)
I take a poly and install a USGI stock and USGI bolt, a US made bbl, a US made FS,
16 Chinese named parts - 4 named Chinese parts = 12 Chinese named parts still left in the rifle and 1 evil feature has been installed = bad ju ju

For the sake of argument, take off the USGI flash suppressor and reinstall the Chinese muzzle attachment. Leave the stock, bolt and barrel on. So, that's 16 - 3 = 13 Chinese named parts now on the rifle. Now replace the Chinese magazine (3 Chinese named parts) for a U.S. made CMI magazine. That leaves you 13 - 3 = 10 Chinese named parts left in the rifle.

Now remove the Chinese muzzle attachment and install your USGI flash suppressor and USGI castle nut. You have no more than ten Chinese (foreign) named parts with one evil feature.
 
#29 ·
Just another point to consider. There have been cases (don't have time to dig them out now) where people have been prosecuted for "intent" to do whatever simply because they had some parts on hand. For instance, a person owned a Class III M16 and an AR15. He had some spare parts for the M16 and was prosecuted for "intent" to build an illegal MG because he owned an AR15 and some M16 parts.
So, if you domesticate a Chicom rifle, I would seriously consider selling the named parts you remove, especially the ones that are easily re-installed like magazine, bolt and trigger group.

Just a thought...
 
#37 ·
Usually...a to be prosecuted for an "attemp" or "intent" crime the prossecution must establish mens rea ("guilty mind") on the part of the actor (guilty party).

This is USUALLY the general idea for these kinds of crimes, though it varies from state to state and for federal law. In colorado it takes a "substantial step" towards the commision of the crime.

Most people convict themselves of these crimes by talking too much or just plain being stupid. Simply having the parts on hand would be hard to get in trouble for if you weren't and idiot. I would think a simple, "I kept them in case I wanted to restore the rifle to its original condition" or "I'm going to sell them later" would be more then enough to ward this off. Also keep in mind the ATF would first have to raid your house find you have all of these evil and vile creations of man.

Not to mention, lets say that I'm going to convert my Polytech (which I am going to someday) to have a flash hider and need to swap out the required parts. Even if I order them all on the same day this doesn't mean they will all show up at the same time, therefore, I would at some point have the means to create this illegal weapon, though my "intent" was not to do so.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you find a good deal on a part you might need further down the road, jump on it, just don't use it untill you have all the required parts.

(sorry for the long winded post...got off on a tangent there for my first post on the forums, haha)

BEERCHUG1

*disclaimer* I'm not a lawyer, do your own thinking. I just stayed in a holiday inn last night.
 
#31 ·
I've tried several spare USGI castle nuts on the three spare Chinese barrels I have. They work fine with or without a flash suppressor installed on the end of the barrel.

It's been reported that the Chinese castle nut doesn't work on the USGI barrel. The Chinese castle nut will go on a USGI barrel but as you thread it on it tends to cant downward.
 
#35 ·
atf,clinton and the chicom riffle

ok so I know the law has been made but can some one explain how clinton and the geniouses at the atf can say a polytech m14 is chineese when the design is a us design the machinery and tooling are our old machines which the chineese bought from thailand with permission of the united states when thailand finally decided to switch to the m16.we sold thailand all of our equipment so essentially for arguments sake it's an american riffle design built in china?i know this statement really won't matter until some one with standing and a good lawyer takes it to court.oh yeah and deep pockets too.cause as far as I remember the constitution says the right to keep and bear arms.i don't remember anything about it saying the arms can not come from china or any other country for that matter.just my.02
 
#36 ·
I thought that on the M1A/M14 style rifles, as with the M1 Garand, the trigger assembly was a two piece unit containing the trigger and a sear.
I have seen that posted before, and that is how it is listed on some Web parts sites.
So, by changing the trigger assembly, you change two parts.

So far on my Polys, I have replaced:
#1. Sight knobs
#2 & 3. Trigger & Sear
#4. Bolt
#5. Stock
#6 - 8. Magazine
#9. Handguard
#10. One Poly has a SEI Muzzle brake. I can't put a flash hider on, I live in the wrong state. I've got them though.
 
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