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This is a discussion on Winchester (Olin Mathieson) Parts within the Reference forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Here are some pictures of early and late Springfield Armory flash suppressors. Notice in the pictures that the size of the early ones are smaller ...


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Old June 15th, 2015, 11:10 AM   #31
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Here are some pictures of early and late Springfield Armory flash suppressors. Notice in the pictures that the size of the early ones are smaller in diameter than the later ones. These early SA. tubes are identical to the ones pictured in this thread.

I would like to present my hypotheses.

I believe that all the smaller tubes are from Springfield and thus all the flash suppressors you see here are of the early Springfield type.

Two explanations are possible: one the labels were put there to deceive or the tubes were sent to Winchester where they were relabeled.

It is apparent to me that these flash hiders are of the early type and SA made those!







Ren

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Old June 15th, 2015, 11:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renisin View Post
Are these early SA suppressors the cast ones? I have several tubes of these early SA. suppressors, they are marked Springfield Armory.

I will try to get some pictures up.
Early Springfield Armory M14 flash suppressors were made from castings.

Reference: Rayle, Roy E. Random Shots Episodes in the Life of a Weapons Developer Fourth Edition. Merriam Press: Bennington, VT, 2008 p. 110.

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Old June 15th, 2015, 11:59 AM   #33
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In these pictures notice the original stocking code on the early tubes do not match the later dated '64&'65 tubes, not until after the tubes have been relabeled do they reflect the newer stock code.

Also notice how old, yellowed, cracked and weathered the labels are!

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Old June 15th, 2015, 12:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Different View Post
Early Springfield Armory M14 flash suppressors were made from castings.

Reference: Rayle, Roy E. Random Shots Episodes in the Life of a Weapons Developer Fourth Edition. Merriam Press: Bennington, VT, 2008 p. 110.
Thanks Lee! I knew that just wanted to get others to think.

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Old June 15th, 2015, 12:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renisin View Post
In these pictures notice the original stocking code on the early tubes do not match the later dated '64&'65 tubes, not until after the tubes have been relabeled do they reflect the newer stock code.

Also notice how old, yellowed, cracked and weathered the labels are!

Ren





Federal Stock Number 1005-587-8417 is part number 7267088 which is the early M14 (T44E4) flash suppressor.

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Old June 15th, 2015, 03:01 PM   #36
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So, the question to USSF06 is; are there any other markings on the OM labeled tubes -either exposed or under the label?


Different -is it accurate to say the early M14/T44E4 flash suppressor is the one commonly referred to as the "small base" suppressor?

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Old June 15th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #37
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I know you asked Lee, but I believe the answer is yes, the "small base" suppressor is the early cast Springfield Armory suppressor.

Ren

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Old June 15th, 2015, 04:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaissonSeven View Post
So, the question to USSF06 is; are there any other markings on the OM labeled tubes -either exposed or under the label?


Different -is it accurate to say the early M14/T44E4 flash suppressor is the one commonly referred to as the "small base" suppressor?
Hmmmm... I'd like to try and peel away the label. Any suggestions on how to do this before I go shredding away? I'm hoping to either find something printed underneath or perhaps the print underneath will stick to the label and we can look at it in a mirror to read

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Old June 15th, 2015, 05:37 PM   #39
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Now that the cat's out of the bag (or -the suppressor's out of the can), it may be that the knowledge gained is more valuable than the label condition.

That said, steam would be the best solution, and that may not work.

I suspect there is nothing under the label. I believe those suppressor's were manufactured at Springfield, sealed in unmarked cans, labels attached and they were crated up and shipped to Winchester, in an effort to help get their production up and running.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 04:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaissonSeven View Post
Now that the cat's out of the bag (or -the suppressor's out of the can), it may be that the knowledge gained is more valuable than the label condition.

That said, steam would be the best solution, and that may not work.

I suspect there is nothing under the label. I believe those suppressor's were manufactured at Springfield, sealed in unmarked cans, labels attached and they were crated up and shipped to Winchester, in an effort to help get their production up and running.
100 percent in agreement here.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 04:58 AM   #41
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From NIT labeling, Harrington & Richardson Arms produced spare early M14 (T44E4 1005-587-8417) flash suppressors in December 1960 and July 1961. Winchester made spare M14 flash suppressors (1005-545-1473) as early as January 1961. The change in design occurred in September 1960. HTH

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Old June 16th, 2015, 06:05 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Different View Post
From NIT labeling, Harrington & Richardson Arms produced spare early M14 (T44E4 1005-587-8417) flash suppressors in December 1960 and July 1961. Winchester made spare M14 flash suppressors (1005-545-1473) as early as January 1961. The change in design occurred in September 1960. HTH
Hmmm... I'm not a collector nor an M14 history buff... So I need a little translation. The date on the OM tubes say '61, but have suppressors that date pre-'60. Are you saying this tube is originally OM, or originally SA or HRA?

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Old June 16th, 2015, 06:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USSF06 View Post
Hmmm... I'm not a collector nor an M14 history buff... So I need a little translation. The date on the OM tubes say '61, but have suppressors that date pre-'60. Are you saying this tube is originally OM, or originally SA or HRA?
A lot of design changes were made during the M14 rifle project. HRA, TRW and Winchester made parts according to the specific contract at any given time. For example, HRA was awarded five different M14 rifle contracts. The contract included parts drawings. So, parts of an earlier design were made even though a new design had been created. It took awhile for the design changes to catch up with production.

IMO, there were no shenanigans with removing or adding labels to the parts containers. Not all parts packaging identified the manufacturer / contractor. The contract number was not always indicated on the label. The tubes of HRA early M14 (T44E4) flash suppressors I mentioned above were made by Harrington & Richardson Arms. How do I know? Because those tubes were marked with the government contract numbers. I keep a data base of M14 parts contract numbers. It's not a complete data base but it does contain several hundred records. HTH

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Old June 16th, 2015, 06:36 AM   #44
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Thank you!

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Old June 17th, 2015, 11:16 AM   #45
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While this type (small Base) flash suppressor is found on early type T44E4 rifles, it is doubtful that these same flash hiders would have been found on later M14 rifles. In fact I don't think I have ever seen one on a real M14.


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