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Winchester (Olin Mathieson) Parts

This is a discussion on Winchester (Olin Mathieson) Parts within the Reference forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by jmoore Interesting to note the subcontractors that supplied Olin Mathieson with parts. My area of greater expertise is with the Browning 1917/1919 ...


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Old June 8th, 2015, 02:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore View Post
Interesting to note the subcontractors that supplied Olin Mathieson with parts.
My area of greater expertise is with the Browning 1917/1919 series belt feds. One of the WWII makers, Buffalo Arms, used subcontractors for about 2/3 of their components. On the other hand, they put their "BA" mfg code on far more parts than any other maker of the time, far beyond what Ordnance required. There are certain components that one can identify by machine characteristics, but some are just impossible to tell. No surprise to me that it is difficult for some M14 parts as well. Sure makes for a fun field of study, however.

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Old June 10th, 2015, 01:18 AM   #17
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Only two photos are not mine. M14Brian supplied me with a connector lock and gas plug from the packs pictured. The gas cylinder tube background is from before I moved to a new base.

Anything specific to look for on the gas plug? To my inexperienced eyes, it looks like any other plug, with the exception of the preservative on it
I will provide a clear pic of a Winchester plug from the same pack, I have 2 left, next to a known H & R plug. There are a couple very subtle differences that somebody that wasn't looking for would miss. If they apply to all Winnys and all H &Rs I don't know, I can only verify what I have. It might be a futile effort to use these details for identification as manufacturers could have changed tooling and it could be different during different production periods, and also most certainly different subcontractors did not have exactly the same tooling. But I will certainly post up what I have.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 01:31 AM   #18
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One thing I found odd about the gas plugs was the preservative used. Granted, I've never handled any new from wrapper plugs before these, but instead of the sticky white powder preservative this one had a powdery charcoal like preservative.

This photo was taken by me at my desk at work when I was packaging up the part and mailing the plug to USSF06. As with both items I sent, I provided a pic of each pack sealed and a pic of the pack opened so there is no guess that I actually in fact did send him a valid verified Winchester part. I'm not going to open a sealed pack and send him some random part, that is just foolish nonsense if anyone thinks that. If anyone is worried, I certify on my whole reputation and my word that the parts I sent USSF06 were in fact from sealed packs that I opened myself, and I never mingled the parts with any others whatsoever, and they were sent to him directly immediately, and are guaranteed 100% Winchester. I actually bought the gas plugs solely for his build, so he could have one or the whole pack at his option, knowing it was the gentleman's last pack that I bought it from.

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Old June 13th, 2015, 10:19 AM   #19
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Flash suppressor pictures.

OM suppressor new from tube (opened by me)



OM suppressor new from tube (opened by seller)



Unknown USGI suppressor, new from wrapper


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Old June 13th, 2015, 10:40 AM   #20
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That "unknown" flash suppressor is the same as Springfield Armory put on their production M14's..It has the elongated front sight platform and the unique flute style.......i have observed this in Blake Stevens book and with my own eyes from looking at 1000's of demilled M14's

i know the armory closed in '68 but IMO some company must have bought out their leftover M14 parts and packaged them and sold them as spares.

I have several of those brown paper packed S.A flash suppressors and i also had a "case" of 10 S.A. flash hiders in the tubes....and i opened 6 of the tubes and they all looked like that.

Its also possible some company bought the SA flash hider tooling and used the machinery to make these Suppressors themselves...but its more likely these were leftovers from the S.A. armory M14 production.

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Old June 13th, 2015, 10:42 AM   #21
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Hey Cody,

Could you get some other angles on the two Winchester Flash hiders? I would like to see the back side and top view of the back half. Better pictures of the splines would be great!

Thanks in advance for the great pictures you take.

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Old June 13th, 2015, 10:47 AM   #22
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The last pictures I believe to be an arsenal repack.

I have opened two new from tube Winchester and SA. flash suppressors and none looked like those.

The tubes were dated '62, '62, '64, '65

I would like to see better pictures of what is called the step area? Thanks.

Several different flash suppressors were used by SA. Cast were used but replaced with forged suppressors.

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Old June 13th, 2015, 11:32 AM   #23
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I'll try and get better pictures some time during my off cycle. I took some of those pictures while I was walking out the door to work, literally.

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Old June 13th, 2015, 01:07 PM   #24
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To clarify; I observed your recent purchase of a "new but opened" Winchester "small base" flash suppressor. Please, if you will -the "small base" suppressor described in your post above, is yet a different one? Again, I as for clarity because the one you recently purchased was described as new, but opened tube. Thanks.

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Old June 13th, 2015, 01:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
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To clarify; I observed your recent purchase of a "new but opened" Winchester "small base" flash suppressor. Please, if you will -the "small base" suppressor described in your post above, is yet a different one? Again, I as for clarity because the one you recently purchased was described as new, but opened tube. Thanks.
The first picture was a sealed OM suppressor in tube that I opened. The 2nd picture is the tube you witnessed me buy from the PX. It was opened by the seller, not me. The 3rd picture is a flash suppressor that I received in a trade from M14Brian. It was new from wrapper, and I gave it a good cleaning.

Hope that helps

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Old June 14th, 2015, 09:00 AM   #26
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The last pictures I believe to be an arsenal repack.
No, it's a replacement / spares part made under government contract by Hesse Machine & Mfg. Co. (Boston, MA).

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Old June 14th, 2015, 11:32 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by USSF06 View Post
The first picture was a sealed OM suppressor in tube that I opened. The 2nd picture is the tube you witnessed me buy from the PX. It was opened by the seller, not me. The 3rd picture is a flash suppressor that I received in a trade from M14Brian. It was new from wrapper, and I gave it a good cleaning.

Hope that helps
This is an interesting discovery, as it's commonly believed the "small base" surppressors are from the Arsenal at Springfield. The reason being, I believe; all early pictures (in print) of the M14 are of Springfield made rifles. These rifles, and the earlier T44E4, display the small base suppressor.

Regarding OM -Winchester was the first commercial concern to receive a civilian contract, in late '59. Awarded a 2nd contract in early '60 -even though no rifles were produced on the '59 contract as yet. It's important to keep in mind here, Springfield had produced the TDP and many M14's by then and, of course, the T44E4 (the first place the small base suppressor first shows up).

I theorized, and could very well be wrong, that these are "relabeled" Springfield manufactured parts.

Thank you for posting the pictures of the OM small base f/s's. The first that I'm aware of. It would be nice to "get to the bottom" of the "small base" suppressor mystery. A small, but significant aspect of the early production of M14 suppressors. Perhaps Different can shed some light on this mystery.

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Old June 14th, 2015, 11:41 AM   #28
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Are these early SA suppressors the cast ones? I have several tubes of these early SA. suppressors, they are marked Springfield Armory.

I will try to get some pictures up.

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Old June 14th, 2015, 12:04 PM   #29
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It's too difficult, for me, to discern. The one I have has been NM conditioned and refinished. Close inspection with a loop displays machining sign in the flutes, but that is not definitive.

A while back, someone posted a picture of one (small base) that had broke. I asked for detailed pictures of the metal (interior) at the break -hoping to see the metal structure and grain. The person did not understand my question and nothing came of it -too bad.

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Old June 14th, 2015, 02:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Different View Post
No, it's a replacement / spares part made under government contract by Hesse Machine & Mfg. Co. (Boston, MA).

Thank you. Prior to this comment, again my opinion, this particular piece would have been thought of as a natural progression of suppressor manufacture, i.e.; small base, large base and stepped.

Your statement clarifies the misconception.

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