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Research: M14 flappered butt plate types

This is a discussion on Research: M14 flappered butt plate types within the Reference forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Bill Ricca clued me in recently that there was more than one pattern or style of M14 flappered butt plate. He mentioned different patterns plus ...


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Old October 12th, 2005, 03:18 PM   #1
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Post Research: M14 flappered butt plate types

Bill Ricca clued me in recently that there was more than one pattern or style of M14 flappered butt plate. He mentioned different patterns plus that he's seen two different methods of attaching the trap door to the butt plate, glued and then glued and staked. My small collection of stock butt plate trap doors all look the same as far as I can tell but I did find three different patterns of flappered butt plate. So, if you have anything different than what I list here please chime in. I'm going to "classify" these patterns but this is subject to change as we learn more together. Also, these flappered butt plates were not particular to wood stocks or fiberglass stocks. All of the butt plates I have appear to be aluminum.

Type I - textured (square looking bumps) surface around the lower screw and two circles (dimples) at the top of the butt plate. For the lack of a better term at the minute, this is the "Partial + Circles" pattern.

Type II - textured (square looking bumps) surface around both the lower and upper screws and two circles (dimples) at the top of the butt plate. This is the "Full + Circles" pattern.

Type III - textured (square looking bumps) surface around both the lower and upper screws but no circles at the top of the butt plate. We'll refer to this as the "Full" pattern for now.

I can't take photographs to save my life so here's a photo supplied by SR420 on my web site. In this photo he is highlighting the KMT marking on the flapper itself but you can see the two circles (dimples) that on the butt plate.

http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery...over.sized.jpg

TIA,

Different

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Old October 12th, 2005, 04:10 PM   #2
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Hey, I've got dimples!

What type are they?

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Old October 12th, 2005, 04:24 PM   #3
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Different, I had that conversation with Bill a while back also, the first time I saw a puttplate with the glued on hinge assy.

I make it 4 different types though...

The little circles could be welds, but I've seen others that looked like rivets (raised area around the little circles). Not sure about that.

click the pic for a higher resolution image...


There could be other variations, but I haven't seen them. Hawk would be a good person to ask, I bet he's seen more buttplates than I have.

I've seen a bunch of the gold colored trapdoors too. Dunno why they are differently colored.

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Old October 12th, 2005, 06:39 PM   #4
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Actually.....

I have a 5th type that is similar but distinctly different to one ( second from right ) that Quag posted.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22.../buttplate.jpg

Arrows show distinct squared dots where the one in Quag's pic has pointed longer dots.

I'll check through a bunch over the weekend and see if I can find any other different ones.


Last edited by Autoguns; February 5th, 2007 at 12:05 AM.
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Old October 12th, 2005, 08:13 PM   #5
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More variations yet
left to right
1- squared bumps top/bottom w/2 welds
2- squared bumps bottom only w/2 welds
3- squared bumps w/2 "small" welds
4- rounded bumps, no welds and raised hinge pin well
5- squared bumps bottom only, no welds
6- rounded bumps on bottom, 2 welds, no storage comp. release
7- squared top & bottom, no welds----sorry forgot photo

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Old October 12th, 2005, 08:50 PM   #6
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Different,

The two that I have, one match's the picture from SR420, with the "KMT marking on the flapper itself". The other one matches Quagmire first from the left picture.

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Old October 13th, 2005, 12:46 PM   #7
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I read a long time ago that where the body of the buttplate was glued to the top part. It was a high quality epoxy developed during the late 1950's. Different opened a never ending project.

I am sure all GI buttplates were aluminum. The steel were Chinese.

Thank you Different . This is an area that should have been done 30 years ago. I am appreciative of the response from so many of you guys.

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Old October 14th, 2005, 04:27 AM   #8
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Bill, got it now. You were referring to the top part of the butt plate and not the trap door. My misunderstanding. So, it looks like some top portions are glued (or glued and staked) and some are welded (circles or dimples). It's starting to make sense now. LOL

Well, since we're in the vanguard of M14 research here at the Firing Line we get to decide how to classify the flappered butt plates. :-) I looked at the photos and read the descriptions posted above. Thank you for the input!

Here's a proposed classification scheme. If you have any feedback or suggestions, chime in. Hawk, the butt plate in the photo you provided above looks to be a Type 2D but correct me if I'm wrong.

"Group 1" flappered butt plates have bumps around the bottom screw only.

Type 1A - square bumps but no welds
Type 1B - square bumps with two weld dimples
Type 1C - round bumps with two weld dimples and no trap door plunger

"Group 2" flappered butt plates have bumps around the top AND bottom screws.

Type 2A - square bumps but no weld dimples
Type 2B - square bumps with two weld dimples
Type 2C - square bumps with two SMALL weld dimples
Type 2D - round bumps with no weld dimples but has a raised pin well

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Old October 15th, 2005, 05:45 PM   #9
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I have two buttplates shown here, one new (on left) and a used one (on the right). The new buttplate is the odd one to me. I have a couple of these (all new), and they are all similar and don't appear to be refinished. It seems like where the dimples would be (like on the other buttplate) it has been welded together then ground flat. You can see the grind marks, but the camera flash seems to wash them out a bit in this photo.

On the flapper part, it has two raised "dots" on one side, and is missing the extra hole (as shown on the old buttplate) on the other side. I bought these as new USGI parts. Are they a new addition to the M14 buttplate variants, or are these possibly a reproduction? I don't know if M14 buttplates were ever reproduced.

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Old October 15th, 2005, 06:35 PM   #10
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I have one that has a spring and plunger under the flapper flang. All of the others that I have seen ( not many) had a spring and ball. It is possible that the plunger was a replacement for a ball that got launched by a previous owner.

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Old October 16th, 2005, 06:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddogkiller
I have one that has a spring and plunger under the flapper flang. All of the others that I have seen ( not many) had a spring and ball. It is possible that the plunger was a replacement for a ball that got launched by a previous owner.
Sounds very plausible to me. TM 9-1005-223-34 August 1972 has an exploded parts diagram for the M14 stock on page 59. It shows the ball bearing. When you go to the parts list the ball bearing has a FSN of 3110-100-6151.

The same drawing on page 59 shows a plunger for the butt plate trap door. But the photographs of the butt plate on page 65 of FM 23-8 December 1959 do not show the plunger assembly for the trap door and no flapper. So, the butt plates without a trap door plunger were early production.

R4 fan, good find on the flapper design. I checked all of my stocks. I only have the flappers with the hole and no raised dots.


Last edited by Different; October 16th, 2005 at 07:02 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2005, 07:08 AM   #12
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I'm changing the classification system to reflect the information about the butt plates without a trap door lock. I'm also thinking the round bumps are early production. I've included the "filling in" of the weld dimples. Possibly Type 1A below was a butt plate that the modification done at Raritan Arsenal to add the flapper.

"Group 1" flappered butt plates have bumps around the bottom screw only.

Type 1A - round bumps with two weld dimples and no trap door lock
Type 1B - square bumps but no welds
Type 1C - square bumps with two weld dimples

"Group 2" flappered butt plates have bumps around the top AND bottom screws.

Type 2A - round bumps with no weld dimples, truncated hinge slot corners, and a raised pin well
Type 2B - square bumps but no weld dimples or dimples filled in
Type 2C - square bumps with two weld dimples (KMT made these)
Type 2D - square bumps with two SMALL weld dimples


Last edited by Different; October 20th, 2005 at 03:04 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2005, 08:50 AM   #13
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Hi Lee, Yep would classify mine as a 2A

I've yet to get a chance to go through my buttplate back plates, but will as time permits (have well over a hundred ) and report my findings.

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Old October 16th, 2005, 03:48 PM   #14
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R4 fan,
I have a butt plate just like yours. I assumed it was Chinese because it is not aluminum but steel and also because of the grinding marks.

Did the Government make any steel M14 butt plates?

Regards

Ox

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Old October 16th, 2005, 07:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxmix
R4 fan,
I have a butt plate just like yours. I assumed it was Chinese because it is not aluminum but steel and also because of the grinding marks.

Did the Government make any steel M14 butt plates?

Regards

Ox

Ox,

Thanks for the heads up. I just checked mine and they do have a steel base (not aluminum). I just bought a bunch and I was told that they are USGI. They are nice buttplates, but I don't know about being chinese made. I'm not sure if they are reproduction or not, I assumed that they were newer production. I have a couple of mine for sale in the PX.


Last edited by R4 fan; October 16th, 2005 at 07:37 PM.
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