M14 Forum

51coronet

Disclaimer :Posting this in reference forum for lack of a better place that I could find here. Sorry if it's in the wrong place.

I recently purchased a small rifle safe. The manufacturer states it is fire rated at 1600 degrees F for 30 minutes. I figure ok not a bad rating and order it.

Safe arrives with a single steel wall all the way around except for the door of course as thats where the bolts etc are stored.

I my opinion sure this will protect from direct flame for a few minutes till anything combustable inside ignites due to lack of any sort of insulating barrier. The walls are metal and will conduct the heat very well.

Am I missing something here? I can touch my stove when it's on because it's double wall steel with an insulatior in between. My BBQ on the other hand will burn anything that touches the outside of it when it's on due to no insulation what so ever which is the same design as the "Fire Rated" safe.

art7

Typically I thought those safes got fire rating by adding a layer of insulation against the inside wall which might look a lot like gypsum/wallboard/sheetrock. I have not seen them do it via a double wall approach.

Did the insulation come as an 'owner installed' kit perhaps?

51coronet

no there was nothing nada. So am I correct in my assumptions here? This is my first safe ever purchased so new to the world of safes and what manufacturers may claim.

The exact verbage was "Fire Rated to 1600 Degrees for 30 Minutes! Best in Class Fire Protection!"

mustanggt

Like in most things you get what you pay for and it is most true with safes. Get a great quality safe and you will never have to worry if what you put in it is safe. Liberty safes are a very good choice too look at. I own one and it is a very high quality piece of hardware. I also own a Superior safe which is made by champion and is a high quality safe as well. I would say not to scrimp on this. It's too important. If it is a cheap safe it can be broke into in less than a minute with the right tool and some muscle. Go to Liberty safe web site as they have all kinds of videos to show you how important it is to have a good safe.

art7

I'm of the opinion you do fine with a sheet metal safe, though you might call them to find out if there is missing insulation. Best in class means exactly that - there are several different classes of fire protection, so that claim might be that they are the best of the worst, as it were. Possibly 1600F/30min is the very basic level.

I think you did fine with a sheet metal safe, because statistically, buying an expensive safe does not pay out. Probability of getting robbed or a fire breaking out are low enough, and all you have at stake is the value of your guns, it's not worth it if you are a gambling man.

Where sheet metal will help you is that it keeps kids and drunk friends away from your guns. If you have an accident and a family member is dead, there you have the rest of your life at stake, which is way more than just the value of a few guns. Kids and friends will not take a crowbar to your gunsafe, so sheet metal is fine.

DarkStaR

My ETL 30min @ 1400* Stack-on safe has insulation...

kgcoker

Line it with sheetrock. Some sheetrock has higher fire rating than others - I've been told.

omni

I've got a Champion Victory-35 and its rated for 60 minutes at 1300 degrees with an internal temperature of 322 degrees.

Most safes are rated for how long they will keep the internal temperature below the burning point of paper.

I found this description at http://www.southlandsafes.com/chmpn_fire_protection.htm

Papers and documents char at temperatures around 405°. Guns are damaged from temperatures exceeding 500°. To protect documents and other possessions during a home fire, the internal temperature of the safe should remain below 350°. This is why we include Phoenix Fire Protection standard on all models--so your safe's contents won't end up cremated.
Five Levels of Fire Protection

Phoenix Class I Fire Protection
30 Minutes at 1200°F. -- Standard on Sport
Phoenix Class II Fire Protection
45 Minutes at 1250°F.
Phoenix Class III Fire Protection
1 Hour at 1350°F. -- Standard on? Trophy
Phoenix Class IV Fire Protection
1 Hour 30 Minutes at 1500°F. -- Standard on Triumph
Phoenix Class V Fire Protection
2 Hours at 1500°F. -- Standard on Crown

Hope this helps

51coronet

Is it lined internally with any sort of insulator or is it plain painted metal like mine is? As far as Im concerned if it's not insulated there is no way in hell it can keep the internal temp down below 350 when the outside temp is above 1000. Metal is a great conductor of heat. 11gauge sheet metal will conduct the majority of that heat in a 30 minute time frame.

GARRARD

Here's some informative stuff.

http://championsafe.com/fire.html

jbrooks

Your safe is not going to withstand any fire, if it has no insulation.

period.

You may want to contact the manufacturer to verify the absense of insulation.

Go to Home Depot and look for the 5/8" gypsum fire-rated wallboard, it's the same stuff used in all the high quality fire safes.

Cut it into sections that will line the safe walls inside, or you can even wrap the safe in layers of the gypsum board. Use at least 3 layers of the wallboard.

For the door, you may want to remove the inner cover and see what's inside. Add wallboard as necessary. You can secure it to the inside with bracing.

51coronet

Thanks for the info here. I did read over the UL test reqs. as well as the champion link and so on before posting this question so it helps to get more input from verified safe owners and so on. Thanks to all who had replied.

I bought a budget priced safe so the misleading advertising was to be expected on my end for the price paid. Main concern was to keep my firearms more secure and away from my family and any would be drunken dummy looking for trouble.

GARRARD

Roger that. When I was doing the research to buy my first safe I decided I didn't want to pay tons of money for fire protection so I just got something that would deny access and bolt to the floor. If my guns ever got destroyed in a fire I'd let the insurance cover them.

omni

Yes, it is both insulated and lined.

mustanggt

If there isn't a seperate rider(sp) on your homeowners policy, typically, it will only cover $2500 for firearms. I don't know about you but I passed that mark after a few buys which made me put them in a steel gun cabinet followed by a superior in additon a liberty as my collection has grown. I am in the process of shopping for firearms insurance myself so don't know all the ins and outs of that yet. I'm very fond of my shooting collection and want to be able to enjoy them for the rest of my life and be able to pass them on to future generations of my family so protecting them and keeping them safe is very important to me. I made the commitment to myself and my family to do that, so it was my personal decision and is just my example.