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Leupold Mark 4 VS Super Sniper HD

19K views 34 replies 14 participants last post by  bx1129 
#1 ·
I am purchasing a complete optics package from Sadlak, as they are about 45 minutes from where I live, then will be having them install my mount and the rest of it on a very happy upcoming Saturday.

Basically, even though these scopes are different and at different price points, I am stuck between the two. I would prefer to spend the less money, but this is and will be my only M1A for a long time and why not do it right the first time around? GI1

So can you please discuss for me which of these scopes you might choose and why? I am definitely determined on a 10x fixed scope. Also, not too knowledgeable about parallax adjustment and how "necessary" it is.

The scope will be used primarily for range fun 100-500 yards, and for deer/stag/boar hunting in VT.

Leupold Mark 4 10x40 LR/T M1 matte #48431

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-...mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-10x40mm-lrt-m1/



VS

Super Sniper 10x40 HD

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P42527.aspx




Thanks for the input Gents!
 
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#2 ·
Rosemary, I just want to make a comment on a fixed 10x scope, for 100-500 yard target shooting at the range it would be perfect. But you also said you were gonna do some hunting in Vermont where shots at much less than a hundred yards are the norm. A fixed 10x at less than 100 yards gives very little field of view and could very well be blurry. Dont let parallax adjustment confuse you its a fancy name for Focus.

I would find someone with a 10x or greater scope and ask to check it out on the range to find out if 10x will work for you at hunting distances or not.

I was coyote hunting last year with my .220 swift and an 8x32 power pentax scope (expecting a long shot) on a gut pile out a 250 yards, after a few calls a coyote popped up over a hill at 26 yards! on 8x all i saw was a blurry mountain of hair I held center an sqeezed...got lucky.

Just something to think about, I still hunt with variable scopes but the heavy woods hunting i do the bottom number is never more than a 4x.
 
#4 ·
100-500 yards with 10X is like driving a race car to the grocery store, sure it looks cool but it's not very practical. The scope I have goes up to 10X which is great for seeing my shots at 100 yards but useless for target acquisition, that's when I crank it down to 1.8X. If you're really wanting the 10X you may want to consider a 3.5-10X Leupold especially considering the range you plan to shoot. You can set it to 10X and forget it till you need less magnification for something close up or for scanning/target acquisition.

Just something for you to think about.
 
#5 ·
I appreciate the responses so far, though not necessarily what I expected.

maybe it's my eyes or personal preference, but I always prefer higher magnification.

I have a 3x in front of my eotech on my AR-15 and even at 50 yards the thing still doesn't show me as much as I would like.

Also in terms of hunting, I think I would pass on a shot that's less than say 75 yards or so. When I go up to VT I spend enough time there that I can really choose what I want to kill, no pressure.

I don't know why I'm fixed on the 10x fixed, but still seem to be...

keep the talk coming though
 
#6 ·
I don't know why I'm fixed on the 10x fixed, but still seem to be...
I think that is your problem right there in that you're excluding other options without any logical rationale.

The mission drives the gear, not the other way around. There are some big advantages to a variable scope that have already been stated, and few disadvantages. I think it's worth considering unless you can articulate a compelling need for a fixed power scope.
 
#7 ·
MK4 10x vs SS 10x

I've owned an SS 10x and two MK4 10x's. I started with the SS, but upgraded to the MK4 within a year. I still own both MK4's, one is an M1 and the other an M3. The SS is a good scope and one heck of a deal for $299 (avoid the more expensive side focus model), but it's no where near as good as the MK4 both in glass quality and in toughness. You must bear in mind that the MK4 10x will cost you at least four times the price of the SS so you might want to take that into consideration when making your choice.
 
#8 ·
I'm in the same boat with pjomalley. I very recently bought the SS 10x. Even before I opened the box I thought how heavy it must be. I returned it. Bought a Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 with the BDC reticle and side adjustment turrets. It appears to be an excellent scope with clear optics for about the same price as the SS. Lifetime warranty. I'm pretty sure it will serve my purposes and beyond. fyi
 
#11 ·
Go to the link I posted. they claim it's a "HEAVY DUTY" version of the scope. they claim it's "limited edition". I have read reviews while googling of people who haver this scope and love it. I have no personal experience with it. Just going off what I have read so far.
 
#13 ·
Based on target shooting and hunting in New England, I'm wondering why a "tactical" scope is necessary. Talking with someone at Leupold, I was told that the VX-3 line actually has better optics than the MK-4 line.

Don't get me wrong, the MK-4 is great for its intended purpose. Plus it's got the 30mm tube. Some of the variable magnification models are first focal plane too.

Have you looked at the VX-3 3.5-10x? You can get one with a Mil Dot reticle and their CDS (compensated dial system) set up for 7.62 Nato 168gr if you want for about what that "heavy duty" Super Sniper costs IIRC.

Personally, I'd rather have the 2.75x Lyman Alaskan on my Mauser for hunting in Maine much more than any 10x scope. Never actually been to Vermont but it can't be that different from Maine & New Hampshire.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
Based on target shooting and hunting in New England, I'm wondering why a "tactical" scope is necessary.
Isn't half the point/fun of having an M1A is to have the finest shooting system available?

Should I expand my criteria for my scope's intended purpose?

Not only will it be for 100-500 yard range fun, it will also be for SHTH and thug protection, it will also be for VT hunting which yes has lots of trees but also has wide open fields as well, and also for the occasional 750-1,000 yard play day.


*ummm, I have never seen a forum edit out the word "******", what is with that????? does someone actually find the word ****** offensive??
 
#15 ·
Expanding the criteria points to a 3.5-10X even more...

I have to admit I was just like you wanting tons of magnification on my scope, heck I had I Leupold Mk4 6.5-20X on my first rifle. It was great for seeing the holes I put in paper and spotting but when I was told to change targets it took me forever to find the target even at 6.5X. Then I talked to Valken about scopes and actually had a pretty lengthy post with lots of input from members regarding power and such and was talked into my USO 1.8-10X. Low power won't let you see the hole you put in something but it'll let you find what to put the hole in a lot faster... A thug with a hole in him is better than one without, remember it's rare they attack alone too so you may get one but if it takes you too long to find his buddy in the sight picture it's game over for you.

Also I know you said you have nothing better to do but sit and wait all day while hunting... Well I've noticed most game comes out early morning or dusk while it's still a little dark. You could hose yourself with exit pupil being only 4mm on a 10X40 fixed and needing it to be larger in order to see because your pupils are dilated due to the dark.

If you said this was strictly a bench gun or long range gun and that was it I wouldn't say anything about fixed 10X. But it sounds like you may need something to fill a few roles so why not get the equipment to do so? If you leave it at 10X the whole time what have you lost? But if you ever need less power you have everything to gain from having the variable.
 
#18 ·
I think the fixed 10X has a different tube/turret block design than the variables which is what makes it cost more.

I know I've been pushing the 3.5-10X but to be more clear, THIS is the one I'd go with if I were looking for something like you are. FFP scopes allow you to do range estimation at any magnification and if it's always at 10X, so be it.
 
#20 ·
There are two differences, one the reticle on your link in MIL Dot and the one I linked is Leupold's TMR. That's the minor part.

Now the BIG difference, the one you linked is a Second Focal Plane or SFP scope and the one I linked is a First Focal Plane or FFP scope. Basically this refers to where the reticle is inside the scope, FFP is in front of the magnifier lens and SFP is behind it. What this means to you... an SFP scope will have the exact same size reticle at any magnification and is typically setup for ranging at it's max magnification, in this case 10X. An FFP scope's reticle will increase or decrease in size with the target as you change the magnification higher or lower and allows for ranging at any magnification. The TMR is a little more fine lined than the MIL Dot which is why I recommended it with the FFP scope since the lines will get thicker as you increase the magnification.

If you do intend to set it at 10X and forget it till less magnification is needed then an SFP scope will work perfectly for you since that's where it's designed to do range estimation. Just thought I'd show you something different.

To help clarify just in case I didn't make sense this is the reticle in my USO which is FFP, you can see the reticle's change in size with magnification...

1.8X


10X


I think the one you linked would be an excellent choice given your intended purpose and even save you some cash for a set of Badger Ordnance rings GI7
 
#22 ·
Badger Ordnance rings are some of the only rings I've seen that have needed little to no lapping when installed. They're machined in sets and serial numbered to each other helping maintain consistency between the two rings. I had a set of Mk 4's that needed lots of lapping no matter how much I tried to align them. BO is regarded as one of the best ring manufacturers if not the best out there. If BO made them in 35mm I'd have a set on my rifle no questions asked. I even contacted them to see if they would custom make them for me... they said no. They are spendy but high quality usually is.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Elevation Cams?



Sounds like you've gotten something confused.

The M1 turrets all have 1/4 MOA adjustments for both W&E.

The M3 turrets are 1 MOA clicks for elevation and 1/2 MOA clicks for windage. There are many elevation BDC rings available for different loads with these M3 turrets and Leupold will make custom ones for you if you send them the load information. There are also blank rings available for you to mark with your own settings Some call them "cams" but that's incorrect. They are marked for specific ranges. None of them change the elevation click value of the scope. Each elevation click is still 1 MOA no matter what ring is installed on the turret.
The knobs that I see in the photo that you provided look like they are for the MK4 LR/T 3.5-10 variable scope or one of the other variables. They are not like those for the MK4 10x fixed power scopes which use circular rings instead of the knobs in your photo. Also, the 1/2 MOA knob pictured appears to be a windage knob for the variable scope. Unless Leupold changed everything around while I wasn't looking GI2
 
#29 ·
1981?

Citizen 64,

Are you sure that you bought those MK4 scopes from Dick Thomas in 1981 or was that a misprint? I only ask because the MK4 scopes weren't even yet designed by Leupold until 1985.

In any case, when I posted about the M1 and M3 turret options available on Leupold MK4 scopes I was only referring to those scopes that were delivered from the Leupold factory and not any of the mods that were once offered by Premier Reticle. Considering the fact that after Dick's (pres. Premier Reticle) untimely death on the operating table his son Chris took over the company and immediately stopped performing any mods (or any other type of work) on Leupold scopes due to a conflict with Leupolds new management. This makes discussing the Premier modified Leupold scopes a moot point when someone is considering the purchase of a new Leupold scope as is contained in the gist of this thread.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Citizen 64,

Are you sure that you bought those MK4 scopes from Dick Thomas in 1981 or was that a misprint? I only ask because the MK4 scopes weren't even yet designed by Leupold until 1985.

In any case, when I posted about the M1 and M3 turret options available on Leupold MK4 scopes I was only referring to those scopes that were delivered from the Leupold factory and not any of the mods that were once offered by Premier Reticle. Considering the fact that after Dick's (pres. Premier Reticle) untimely death on the operating table his son Chris took over the company and immediately stopped performing any mods (or any other type of work) on Leupold scopes due to a conflict with Leupolds new management. This makes discussing the Premier modified Leupold scopes a moot point when someone is considering the purchase of a new Leupold scope as is contained in the gist of this thread.
Thank you, good spot year was 1987 not 1981, I'm trying to type on a touch screen E-Book and my 10 thumbs hunt & peck is iffy at best.
While no new Leupolds will ever come from Premier, they are available used.
The only thing Dick preformed to these scopes was the reticle change and supplying the turrets from Leupold.
Everything but the reticle is available from Leupold as you yourself pointed out.
My point was only meant to point out how pleased I have been with the Fixed power MK4 10x M1 as used on my M14 and that the additional knobs were available.
Apologies if anything other was implied.
 
#32 ·
the SWFA 3 - 9 x 42 is FFP and Mil Dot / Mil adj, I bought one and like it a lot; (i've got 2 Leopold's to compare it to). it was $599 at SWFA.

Good luck.
I bought one of these for my .22 trainer, and it appears to be very nice in terms of glass, clicks, etc. Haven't mounted it up to check tracking yet, but by all accounts, it's supposed to be right on.

In any case, SWFA also has a package deal that includes rings, ARD, BC caps, and some other bits here:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Packaged-Deal-P44443.aspx

Same price as the scope alone, and it only comes up via a website search, but just thought I'd pass it along in case anyone is looking for one of these...
 
#35 ·
If you know anyone in LE/MIl, tell them to contact Leupold to get your Leupold optics. You will not believe how much you can save.

The Army is actually starting to use variable FFP Leupold Mark 4 scopes now because it's so much more versatile. I haven't heard anything about the variable Mark 4 as being "lower in spec" compared to the 10x fixed.
 
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