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Need help choosing a scope and rings.

4K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  363mp 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok guys, i am pretty new to scoped M14's and scopes in general. I am getting a SEI Crazy Horse rifle very soon and need help choosing the right optics.
I have looked at the Leupold mark4 and they seem very impressive. I was also looking at the Pride-Fowler line and i am not sure about them. (any thoughts on this)
These two are not my only choices. Any suggestions? I have also looked at the US optics line and am curious.
I have about $1500 to spend on the scope and the rings. The rifle has the SEI scope mount already.
Now the question of retical, how hard is the mil dot system to learn? I looked over a few websites and it seems kinda complicated.
I will be shooting the M-118LR round only and my yardage will be anywhere from 100 to 1000 yards.
What would be your choice set up? I also need help with rings. I understand that i will need to lap the rings to the scope on install. I would like the scope to sit as low on the SEI mount as possible. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
#2 ·
I went with the Premier Heritage 3-15.

www.premierreticles.com

I'm a Leupold man, but it blows Leupold out of the water on every level, glass, features, reticle, etc. I mean they're not even comparable. It beats everything up to S&B for glass quality. About 500 above your price range, though.

If I were to have to stick to that price range, I'd get a Leupold. Nothing else that's better (NF, USO, et al) is in the price range. I looked into IOR, but the consensus was that the M14 action beat them pretty bad, and about 15-20% would fail. Not a chance I was willing to take.

The mildot system is not that hard to learn, and I wouldn't buy ANY scope with a plain old duplex anymore, there's just too much you can do with some kind of mildotish reticle, and you can always use the mildot like a duplex, but not the other way around.

I would suggest mil adjustments over MOA, or get a MOA reticle. IMO, there's no reason to convert back and forth.

Use quality rings, Badger, Seekins, SEI, etc. Don't forget that the rear site is higher than the rail and you'll have to clear the ocular over it.

You could also go the complet opposite direction, which I almost did. Get a MK 4 w/ 40mm objective (30MM tube), and set it low. I would have gone with either the 4.5-14 or the 3.5-10 mildot illuminated, either of which would be in your price range. In the end, I decided I couldn't live without the First Focal Plane, and the price difference wasn't all that much.
 
#4 ·
I would suggest mil adjustments over MOA, or get a MOA reticle. IMO, there's no reason to convert back and forth.
I don't think this can be emphasized enough - make sure the reticle and knobs match! If you get a mildot reticle of some sort, make sure the knobs adjust in mils. Having to do the math every time you range something is just silly. You really want to go with something in the first focal plane also, to be complete. That way, no matter what the magnification, just measure using your reticle. Take a shot, notice that you're 1 mil off, dial in 1 mil on the knob, you're done. With MOA knobs, notice that you're 1 mil off, convert that to MOA, then dial that number to the closest value on the knobs (1/4 or 1/2 MOA per click is most common). Distance doesn't matter, magnification doesn't matter, etc.

I'll second the Premier recommendation, although you'll be hard pressed to find one for $1500. At that price point, for the features above, the IOR SH3-18ffp is really the only game in town. I have a 3rd gen version, and have had no problems with it, nor heard of any (1st and 2nd gens did have issues). Scott at Liberty Optics would be the person to talk to for these, or just general advice. Next stop down is the Falcon 4-14ffp, which is around $400. I had one of these mounted to an M14 for a while, and also had zero issues with it. Not as nice as the IOR, but much cheaper also.

Beyond that, you're look at USO, Premier, etc.
 
#3 ·
...I have looked at the Leupold mark4 and they seem very impressive. I was also looking at the Pride-Fowler line and i am not sure about them. (any thoughts on this)...
I'd suggest before focusing on what the reticle is, focus on where it is. The first focal plane reticle, which the Premier Heritage has, allows direct use at any zoom setting - that means that unlike most scopes you don't have to use the scope at only one magnification in order to have the reticle calibrations correct. The Pride Fowler has the first focal plane reticle too, and it's directly calibrated for range, so you don't have to figure out milliradians, which is what the "mil" in mil-dot stands for, if you don't want to.

It's the only scope I've used where, with my eyes, I could still see holes in the target @ 100 yds without a spotting scope. And if the Premier website prices are correct, it's also about 4 1/2 times cheaper.
 
#7 ·
I exchanged emails with Jeff at US Optics and he suggested that i get their ST-10 with a MOA Scale Type 1 reticle,
¼ MOA elevation and windage knobs, and parallax adjustment
I think i can get some more money for the scope by selling a few of my 1911's and from what i have seen its hard to beat USO. What do you guys think? Any other options that i need?

Thanks JD, i will be posting a range report just as soon as i get it all put together.
 
#8 ·
Excellent scope! If you decide you don't want an illuminated reticle, you might consider asking that they use the body for an illuminated setup - it can be added later, but only if you have the right body. If you decide at some later point you want a variable magnification setup, etc., it generally helps resale value...

Also, most people favor the EREK elevation setup...
 
#12 ·
Before you buy a USO talk to Scott at Liberty Optics. You can get a Premier for a LOT less coin, and it's a better scope IMO. You just can't get it in MOA/MOA, at least not standard, as they're all Mil/Mil.

BTW, a MKIV with FFP will cost more than the Premier as well, and unlike the USO, it's not a similar scope.
 
#13 ·
I went with a leupold MK 4 ER/T front focal plane tacticle milling reticle 8x25x50. The reticle is not as hard as it looks! The nice part about having the FFP is that you can judge distances at any magnification. Leupold also has IMHO the most accesories ie sunshades, lens covers, ard, and a bunch of illumina accesories. They also have a cool tape gizmo that you can put you dope on. I got mine with a few accesories last year for around 1500 wholesale from kesselring out in the north west. Great scope for the money. If I had one complaint it would be that you have to be directly behind the scope in order to. See the entire picture. Smidt and bnder are much more forgiving with that respect. If you get a good cheakrest you won't have any problem. It also has a parralax adjustment which is again IMHO a world of difference than one without. Look bellow to see what it looks like on the rifle. Oh get the mk 4 rings also they don't need to be lapped, at least mine didn't. A cording to leupold they don't need lapping. Hope tuis helps
 
#15 ·
The Premier scope does look nice but I'm personally waiting to see how it fares after being on the market a few years. It was just released recently and seems like a mix of Schmidt & Bender and Zeiss scopes. Not a bad combo, just want to see what people say after they have a few thousand rounds under them since most things are awesome when they're new out of the box.

I'm going with a US Optics SN-3 1.8-10X44. It's a little pricey with all the upgrades and changes I made to it but it's exactly what I want and not close to or kind of. Plus they're about 40 minutes from my house so I can stop in and talk to them and was able to see several first hand before putting a deposit on mine.

I got to see GoBig's setup first hand, he's got the Premier with Badger rings and it is very nice no doubt. Some features I think are a bit much like QR levers for the windage and elevation knobs since I think this is a set and forget sort of thing but that's me.

In the end you need to research and decide what features are most important to you and what you're willing to compromise on.
 
#17 ·
I have had trigger time with a LOT of different glass. For the money, I think the best all-around scope(s) are still the Mk.4's. Once you define how/where the scope is going to be used, Leupold has a scope to fit. I really like NF as well, but at the time a similar scope was 2x's the price of a Mk4. I have pretty good eyes, and I wasn't seeing double-the-price-worth of glass or features.
It's your money, buy what makes you happy. Just don't skimp on the mount and rings. You could have the best scope on the planet; using crappy rings/mounts is like putting a supercharged V8 in a Prius.....doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
#18 ·
Just don't skimp on the mount and rings. You could have the best scope on the planet; using crappy rings/mounts is like putting a supercharged V8 in a Prius.....doesn't make a lot of sense.
100% agree. I think the OP said he's got a Smith mount so just need some quality rings. Badger Ordnance rings are NICE but a little pricey. However if he runs the scope he talked to me about Badger Ordnance rings would be perfect for the job.

I think a better example would be putting a supercharged V8 in a beautiful classic muscle car but using low grade bolts and cheap motor mounts to hold the two together... Things are only as strong as the weakest point.
 
#20 ·
I have decided that i am going get a Leupold mark 4

http://usarmorment.com/leupold-mark...lluminated-dark-earth-p-782.html?currency=USD

Anyone know anything about that company? Not Leupold but the US Armorment. That is a great price.
I would like the scope to set as low as possible on the Smith mount. So to clear the rear sight would i need a MED set of rings or a LOW set? The rifle has the SEI cheek pad.

I had thought of US Optics and they seem like one of the best makers out there. But, way out of my price line. I will learn the Leupold like the back of my hand and when i am READY to upgrade i will get a US Optics.
In truth here in Alabama my longest shot is gonna be maybe 500 yards so i think the Leupold would fit the bill and thats a great price on that scope. I also figure Ron Smith installs these leupolds on our warriors CH rifles so if its good enough for them its good enough for me.
Thoughts, suggestions?
 
#25 ·
In truth here in Alabama my longest shot is gonna be maybe 500 yards so i think the Leupold would fit the bill and thats a great price on that scope. I also figure Ron Smith installs these leupolds on our warriors CH rifles so if its good enough for them its good enough for me.
Thoughts, suggestions?
In the USMC, I never qualified below expert using iron sights out to 500. The advantage of having a higher mag. ratio is for observation purposes, not shooting. 10x was good enough for me out past 1000 yards, the only exception being the 50's, which need a slightly higher magnification for the 2k shots.
Anything in the 500 yard ballpark is covered with anything up to the 10x range. (My personal SHTF rifle sports a Mk.4 1.5-5 with a SPR reticle.)
Good choice with the Leupold's. I think they are the best value for the money. For the record, I tried out the new S&B on a 300wm the other day, and it didn't blow my skirt up. The scope costs more than my custom LRB M25. To each his own I guess
 
#21 ·
Looks like it will make a great setup, and if you get the right rings it should be low enough to get a cheek weld. The only problem I see is that it still has a Mil reticle and MOA adjustments. I like the 1/2 MOA adjustments better than 1/4, though.

Low/medium/high rings means exactly nothing, as each mfg calls a different height something different. You need to find out EXACTLY what height, measured in inches or MMs. I'd check with Ron Smith, as he probably knows the relation of his mount and the scope, and can clue you in to exactly how low you can go. Expect him to tell you HIS rings are the ONLY ones acceptable.GI2
 
#24 ·
Not to belittle anyone else's advise or their choice for their rifle, you made a good choice and won't be disappointed. Don't forget to check out Leupold's website to check out the accessories available for the scope. They make a a couple of sun shades and a variety of colored lenses. I went with the yellow lenses it adds great deal of contrast to the field of view.
 
#31 ·
Well, i ordered the Leupold. Very hard to find model, had to track it down from a seller in PA.Got it for just under $1300. Still awaiting the rings and the rifle. I will post pics and a range report when she arrives. I feel as giddy as a schoolboy.GI6
I bought some black hills 168 grain BTHP and some Federal Gold match 175 grain BTHP. Gonna put her thru her paces ASAP.
 
#32 ·
Question for eat beef

Eat Beef,

I just got my premier heritage and was wondering what rings and mount you are using?

Any pit falls I may run into when mounting it on my supermatch?

Do you know of anyone who makes quick release rings ?

First choice American made ! Second choice German ?

Thanks
Bill
 
#33 ·
How I made my scope decision.

For what it's worth After months and month sof trying to find just the right scope for my Supermatch I picked the Premier Reticle for the following reason.

First and most important: Made in the USA...

Second the company itself has been around forever and the man who started it basical invented the cross hair. It's all on their site.

In the past if you were to order any custome work on your Leupold such as front focal or custom reticles Premier Reticle is who Leupold sent it to.

Up until recently Premier Reticles was the only company(or one of the very few) in the US allowed to do warrenty work on Schmidt and Bender.

Premier reticle converter all the Schmidt and Benders with the their generation II new reticle being used by the Military.

Premier also partnered with a couple of Schmidt and Benders Engineers to design their new Scope line.

So I Figured if the 2 best names in optics (Leupold & S&B)trusted their reputation with Premier Reticle then I would give them a shot.

Plus The premier reticle was only about $200.00 more than the leupold I was looking.$1000.00 less then a S&B. And about $300.00 less than a USO with comparable options.

The Premier Reticle is built like a tank and only time will tell if I made the right choice. But in the end all of the 4 scopes I mentioned are great works of engineering.
 
#34 ·
As long as you stick to top quality, brand etc is what you are most comfortable with. I have Leupolds on my hunting guns but run a Nightforce NXS on my LRB M14. Leupold customer service is fantastic and fast. I like compact scopes and that is one reason I went with the Nightforce for the M14SA.
 
#35 ·
I have leupolds (3) on on all my hunting guns also. It's all in what your looking for and if your blessed with enough scratch to buy the finer things in life.
 
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