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Mounting and squaring the scope

This is a discussion on Mounting and squaring the scope within the Optics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; I have mounted my scope on my Remington with Weaver Bases and Burris Extreme Tactical Rings. I used a Wheeler Mounting Set to square the ...


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Old March 5th, 2017, 07:24 AM   #1
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Mounting and squaring the scope

I have mounted my scope on my Remington with Weaver Bases and Burris Extreme Tactical Rings. I used a Wheeler Mounting Set to square the scope.
But, when I look through the scope it seem to be tilting towards the left. Here is what I did:

I used a Tipton Rifle Vise on a level platform and made sure everything was level.
I then put the bases on the rifle and put it in the vise using the bases mounted to make sure the gun was level.
I then put the clamp level on the barrel to make sure it was level with the level on the bases.
I then put the rings on the bases and put the scope in the rings.
When I put the level on top of the elevation turret which is flat I matched the level on top of the turret with the level on the barrel. Then I tightened it all down and torqued to spec.

I am satisfied that it is all level! Then I put it up to my shoulder and the cross-hairs are canted to the left with the bottom of the vertical line going to the right...................I am wondering if this could be because I wear glasses and am getting some sort of parallax giving me this view.

Has anybody else had this kind of experience and how did you fix it? It is giving me fits.

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Old March 5th, 2017, 07:33 AM   #2
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It could be the rifle naturally cants to the left due to how your shoulder pocket is shaped. Not that I like "Snipershide" but the guy had a video where they tested the effects off a canted rifle vs straight scope at distance. Two identical rifles/scopes. The scope was offset to match the cant of the rifle as it was in the shoulder. As long as the crosshairs were visually level, there was no real effect to point of impact at 600yards.

There is two ways to look at this-force your rifle "straight" when you shoot...or cant the scope to orient the way it naturally sits in your shoulder. I choose the latter.

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Last edited by smoothy8500; March 5th, 2017 at 07:46 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2017, 08:07 AM   #3
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From what you describe, you are right handed. It's normal for the scope to appear canted when placed into your shoulder but, you are just naturally canting the whole rifle toward your face. Nothing to worry about. If you think that is bad, try doing it from sitting position and watch how much difference in cant there is. Since I shoot from position, I normally level the scope to match my prone position. My cant from prone and offhand are very, very close. Sitting cants outboard a good bit. Since I shoot known distance across the course, I just dial in the appropriate zero.

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Old March 5th, 2017, 08:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
From what you describe, you are right handed. It's normal for the scope to appear canted when placed into your shoulder but, you are just naturally canting the whole rifle toward your face. Nothing to worry about. If you think that is bad, try doing it from sitting position and watch how much difference in cant there is. Since I shoot from position, I normally level the scope to match my prone position. My cant from prone and offhand are very, very close. Sitting cants outboard a good bit. Since I shoot known distance across the course, I just dial in the appropriate zero.
You are right I am right handed. I guess it is ME that is out of square! I'm not as young and rigid as I used to be. That could be a factor as well.

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Old March 5th, 2017, 08:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
From what you describe, you are right handed. It's normal for the scope to appear canted when placed into your shoulder but, you are just naturally canting the whole rifle toward your face. Nothing to worry about. If you think that is bad, try doing it from sitting position and watch how much difference in cant there is. Since I shoot from position, I normally level the scope to match my prone position. My cant from prone and offhand are very, very close. Sitting cants outboard a good bit. Since I shoot known distance across the course, I just dial in the appropriate zero.
dist1646 nailed it. No one holds a rifle the same, and it will naturally cant in your shoulder. I use the same set up as the op. And it will drive you crazy if you let it. Just do as dist1646 described and fine tune with a long range sight in target to check for elevation drift in your come ups if you have turrets.

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Old March 5th, 2017, 08:28 AM   #6
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Same as you've described, I use bubble levels on everything to make sure I've trued up the scope, with the added step while doing so, I have a visual aid out in the yard to check the reticle for any canting issues, mine just happens to be the white frame of a pool cage that is known to be horizontal/vertical level as a gauge which works quite well, you can also use a weighted piece of string. Using this method I've actually seen scopes with a canted reticle, or, not leveling with the turrets & everything else if that makes sense, and sent the scope back for one that did. Also hate to say our older eyes can play tricks, and why I have one of those bubble levels installed on my long range scopes to keep from canting them...

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Old March 5th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #7
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It's an illusion.
I've hunted successfully for years and years with a Model 7 and a Redfield 3X9, where I had done a rough levelling to what 'felt' good. Never thinking it was my shoulder position doing that.
For whatever reason, I decided to square up the scope 'officially' (squared up vice and horizontal reticle lined up the window frame, confirmed level, across the room). It just didn't seem right, no matter how many times I checked. It just took some getting used to.

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Old March 5th, 2017, 09:31 AM   #8
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What good is a perfectly "squared" level scope/rifle if the rifle never sits perfectly "squared" in the shoulder?

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Old March 6th, 2017, 03:27 AM   #9
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I hope I don't ruffle any feathers here.....but....
I've been a machinist since my early teens, programmed CNC equipment from late teens, and been selling CNC machinery for decades.

My thoughts on the entire "Leveling Scope" deal is crazy in my opinion.....setting up rifles in elaborate fixtures, leveling them (to what? the world?) then leveling bases-rings-scopes from there?????

I understand the Datum Dimensions the Firearms Industry uses for most parts/operations.
I also understand that the Firearms themselves, Bases, Rings, and Scopes are all made on precision CNC machinery.
While dimensional blue-print tolerances may be from a few Tenths to a few Thousandths of an inch, the parallelism and perpendicularity of any machined surface is almost ZERO by default.

So....
TO MOUNT A SCOPE ON A QD-BASE:
I had a small block of steel made up on a milling machine with the top being a mock-up of a Picatinny Rail.
Set this on a small granite plate.
I mount the Base/Rings onto this fixture/block
I put the Scope into the Rings loosely
Then take a right-angle Machinist Square and hold it down on the Granite base, and place side against the SIDE OF A SCOPE TURRET.
Tighten and done.
The entire process takes 5 minutes!!
I've checked this procedure with Dial Indicators, etc,....almost perfect.

TO MOUNT A SCOPE USING ONLY RINGS:
I slide in Adjustable Parallels and lay them on the top of the rail, then expand them to the underside of the flat on the bottom of the scope and tighten.
No "deck of card" tricks or shims necessary.

Scopes today are typically made on CNC Lathes with Live Spindles and C-Axis positioning/contouring so the detail of the Scope's Turret Cavities are almost perfect relative to parallelism and perpendicularity.....surfaces that are 90-degrees and 180-degrees from each other.

I'm really surprised Brownells doesn't offer a Fixture like my buddy and I made up.....it's very simple actually.

Note - You could probably use your kitchen table & plastic square in lieu of the tools we used and still get better results than the deck-of-cards/shim-stock/level fiasco.

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Old March 6th, 2017, 04:46 AM   #10
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Just FYI gang, I have found scopes with the reticle actually canted in relation to the turrets, which can throw your shot left/right at distances. I also have a flip-up leveling device installed on my scope to minimize canting from the bipod. Overkill? Perhaps, but every little bit helps IMHO...

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Old March 6th, 2017, 05:16 AM   #11
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Just adjust the scope so the crosshairs are 'square' when you shoot. There's no need for the axis of the rifle to match the scope.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:14 AM   #12
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A glitch in the time/space continuum.

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Old March 6th, 2017, 09:50 AM   #13
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With the rifle secured in a cradle or gun vice I place a small level on the flat part of the receiver just behind the rear sight to level the rifle.

Next I hang a plumb bob where it can be seen through the scope and adjust the scope so that the vertical crosshair is parallel to the string of the plumb bob.

I've been using this method for years, cuz it works.

Rich

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Old March 6th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConRich View Post
With the rifle secured in a cradle or gun vice I place a small level on the flat part of the receiver just behind the rear sight to level the rifle.

Next I hang a plumb bob where it can be seen through the scope and adjust the scope so that the vertical crosshair is parallel to the string of the plumb bob.

I've been using this method for years, cuz it works.

Rich
Hi Rich!
Another Mainer eh?
I'm in York County.....do you ever shoot in Scarborough at the 600 yard range?
I never have, but some guys at our club were talking about it...
(Didn't mean to derail!)
Thanks!
Mark

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Old March 6th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #15
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I use feeler gauges if there's a rail. If not I use a level...

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