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Okay hunters: optics question

This is a discussion on Okay hunters: optics question within the Optics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Good day hunters, I again am seeking a little advice - this time optics for the M1A. Now, I know there are precision snipers, freaks ...


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Old January 19th, 2017, 09:48 AM   #1
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Okay hunters: optics question

Good day hunters,

I again am seeking a little advice - this time optics for the M1A. Now, I know there are precision snipers, freaks of nature with their guns and their ability to calculate ballistics on the fly, as well as traditionalists about their optics... I do not presume I will ever be more than an average shooter looking for any advantage I can get. That being said - I do not plan on going a traditionalist route on my optics, I plan on going modern high tech. That being the ATN X-Sight II HD (unless they come out with a III by the time I make a purchase, but everyone is tight lipped if there is one coming soon or not, so I am presuming X-Sight II series).

Anyway - the thing has a built in range calculator (not laser though), ballistics calculator with multiple profile save feature for quick adjustment to different ammunition, altimeter and barometer, wifi and bluetooth link capability, recoil activated video or constant video that goes to a SD card, windage calculator (manual entry), a gen II night vision (which I probably will never use), oh yeah, and a one-shot zeroing feature. Yes, technically it isn't a scope, it is basically a digital camera with a lot of computational capabilities built into the firmware... but since me + math = not so good times in terms of accuracy and I am basicallly a techno geek every chance I can be, this is a good fit for me IMO. It's still a little glitchy, I know the app has to be revised like every 2-3 months to fix some bugs, along with the firmware every quarter from what I heard, but that pretty much is any piece of software, or smart phone, or any electronics anymore - so that doesn't bug me.

That being said - with the parameter of the fact that my primary target game will in fact be deer and elk in the Colorado high country, max target range probably of 250 yards (though they who invited me say they are typically shooting at 75-150 yards typicall) with the M1A shooting one of the highly recommended 168gr ammunition from the previous thread, WITH the high probability of going hog hunting in Texas this spring or summer as well, I question the magnification of which would be better: 3-14 or 5-20?

The weight difference is a negligible difference IMO (the 3x is 2.14lbs, the 5x is 2.55lbs) with a $100 over the counter price difference between the two, but I wonder if the added zoom, with that one-shot zeroing capability, being able to make it even more precise of a zeroing the more you zoom in, would not be a better thing to have for that precision shot for the most humane kill zone shot placement? Or... is just... overkill at that sort of range?

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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:33 AM   #2
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i have never used one personally but in my experience higher magnifications at close ranges is worthless.
you may look into the laws of the state regarding night vision and hunting. like az for example, you cant even have it with you while youre hunting.

for me, I would get my rifles data and put it on a round piece of rite in the rain paper and put it in my lens cap. but if youre only going to be shooting no farther than 300, zero for 200 and call it good but just remember shooting up or down hills will change your impact point above the true range of the target. aim low!
you could look into a mildot master to help you with that or pick up an angle cosine indicator. it gives you the cosine of the angle youre shooting up or down then all you have to do is multiply that by the range to the target. that will give you the corrected range to dial to...
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=22NXM5ZJDHPYB

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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:38 AM   #3
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Three words: WASTE OF MONEY.

I'm a gadget guy too, but do you really need that to whack an elk at 300 yards? I don't think so. I've digressed and gone back to irons for simplicity's sake.

Thanks from joesig and Rich D
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #4
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That is a lot of scope and capability for deer/elk shots with a max target of 250 yards and typical shooting range of 75-150 yards.

I understand you might like all of the "neat features" of your ATN X-sight - but for the ranges your talking about none of the features are really necessary IMHO. I have been hunting for 45 years and the most important requirement is that you have confidence in your weapon and the ability to make a clean kill shot. I have hunted out west but mostly hunt in Georgia whitetail deer & hogs -> most shots are between 75 - 150 yards.

At that range and with my zero set properly I can simply hold directly in the animal kill zone and without any adjustment make the shot [Yes I hunt with my M1A/M14]. Once I get to 300+ I have to rely on some bullet drop compensation features that are built into my scope and I know exactly what my load [Nosler 165gr Ballistic tip over 42gr 4895 is going to do].

I find you want to have simple set-up, well tested because when you are in the field hunting many times you will be - humping, out of breath and don't have a lot of time to acquire your target and make your shot. I have been testing the Primary Arms 4-14X44mm Riflescope - ACSS HUD DMR .308/.223 Reticle - and this is quickly turning into my favorite scopes [I am 6 for 6 - combination of deer and hogs] and once you understand the reticle you never need to leave your target to make adjustments. But again at 75 - 150 yards you will be able to hold directly on your animal target and make a clean kill. I have included a link below and a picture of my set-up. Either magnification would be fine but the 3-14 would be sufficient for the distances you are discussing. I normally keep my scope on 6 power as a general rule and adjust as necessary.

Here is a link to the scope I am using - I will be doing a write-up on this scope at some point in the near future.

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-pa4-14xffp308

You should get the scope that makes you happy, but in the field simple is better and knowing exactly what your weapon can do is most important when time is short and you have to make a clean kill. You normally do not get "do overs!"


Here is my set-up.....




This was several weeks ago - two hogs tried to sneak through right at dark -> I turned on the illuminator that lights up the chevron tip reticle [which gave me a perfect sight picture in low light] and placed a perfect shot right behind the ear - the 200lb hog dropped and did not move 1".


Thanks from speerchucker, Dsc and Rich D

Last edited by M1Army; January 19th, 2017 at 12:14 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #5
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3x9 is probably the most popular hunting scope for good reason. I'd go with the lower power. When I hunted, my scope was usually set at 7x, here in MT.

Thanks from stoky
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Old January 19th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #6
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In my neck of the woods (southeastern Ontario), while still hunting you can expect to bump a deer from 5 yards away (creep up on it while it is sleeping in the sumac) or from a stand, have them walk right up to the base of your stand. You can also get some longer shots from across a harvested corn or soy field. (100-200yds). I opt for LOWER power scopes that can also reach out to ~300 (1.5-6x 42mm) and keep it on the LOWEST power setting unless otherwise required. You don't want to waste any time when they appear up close! The larger scopes are heavier, but aid in light gathering at dawn & dusk. My last deer was taken (with 20guage slug gun - no rifle season here) at 90 yards, but the one before was about 10yards...

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Old January 19th, 2017, 12:34 PM   #7
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When hunting think "KISS"

3-9 second focal plane is the standard for a good all around scope in "my mind". 3x for 50-100 hunting and 9x for anything past 200 or when your at the range. I have a 3.5-10 scope and it's more scope than I need. Like said before irons work too especially with the m1a.

Thanks from Rich D
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Old January 19th, 2017, 12:37 PM   #8
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If the field of view is accurate, you could do worse for a hog hunt. Seems way overkill for elk. 3X-14 should be plenty for all you will do. 14X is more than enough for me and groundhogs at 300 yards.

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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:08 PM   #9
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
A lot of good information to digest, consider, and such. One way or another I have the clear impression if I still opt for this tech instead of a standard scope the 5-20 is ABSOLUTELY overkill given the likely range of anything I might shoot at.

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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:09 PM   #10
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From posts by an optics dealer in Indiana.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/access...t-3x14-hd.html

The x-sight has been a flop since day 1. There were 2 versions that made it all the way to distributors but not quite to dealers (roughly 1 week out of ATN's hands) before being recalled, so in reality we are on version 10 or so. Every version promises the moon, doesn't deliver, and they announce a new version.

Will they eventually get it right? I dont know

Is the version you bought the saving grace? I dont know.

Staistically are the odds in your favor? Absolutely not.

99% of youtubers are extremely ignorant about optics. Its something you should really focus on when watching reviews on YouTube. I've actually seen and posted on ingo respected you tube videos about optics where the scope is plain as day 100% broken. The guy doing the review is praising the product as he is paid to do (in his defense, its obvious he didn't know any better), and the fans of the page are biting hook line and sinker while im screaming at my computer saying "ITS BROKE"



http://ingunowners.com/forums/parts-...h-reading.html

ATN x-sight 3-12 (this is worth reading)
I have at least 1, and I think 2 ATN x-sight's 3-12's brand new in box like the one in this link.

https://www.amazon.com/ATN-X-Sight-R...n+x-sight+3-12

Ive had them in stock since they were first released. They dont sell well for me because I tell the customer they are crap. I bought 5, and have these 2 left. Dealer price is 400 bucks (150 off amazon). My price picked up at the 1500 is 400 cash, or 425 CC.

Here is the catch. If these break, and you learn ATN is a pain to work with then don't come to me. You have been for warned these are not great NV units (hints why they cost 550, when everything else is 2k-10k)

If you complain in 6 months that its not living up to whatever internet review you found's claim direct your complaint's to the guy who did the review, not me. At 400 bucks I wash my hands with the deal. I don't think I can be any clearer than this.

Dont offer me 400 CC, or 399 cash. Say I will take it, or move on to buy one off of Amazon for 35% more.

Thanks from joesig
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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:14 PM   #11
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I agree, 3-9 has been the standard all around optic for many years. What about a 1-4 or 1-6 power scope? This really is all you need if you do want to run optics. Plus, they're light!!! If you leave it on 1X, you don't get caught with those awkward 30 yard shots when you jump something.

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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:20 PM   #12
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I don't hunt with my M1A only because we aren't able to use semi autos but I do use a Winchester 88 .308. For the hunting you disscribe is very close to the type we do here. As M1Army says the 165 will kill anything you want out of a 308 . Myself I use Nosler Partitions and a 2x7 VX3 would be the ticket. I have a 3x9 with LRD and don't even come close to needing it. You start humping that rifle up the mountain your going to start thinking of shaving weight. Just my thoughts.

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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
From posts by an optics dealer in Indiana.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/access...t-3x14-hd.html

The x-sight has been a flop since day 1. There were 2 versions that made it all the way to distributors but not quite to dealers (roughly 1 week out of ATN's hands) before being recalled, so in reality we are on version 10 or so. Every version promises the moon, doesn't deliver, and they announce a new version.

Will they eventually get it right? I dont know

Is the version you bought the saving grace? I dont know.

Staistically are the odds in your favor? Absolutely not.

99% of youtubers are extremely ignorant about optics. Its something you should really focus on when watching reviews on YouTube. I've actually seen and posted on ingo respected you tube videos about optics where the scope is plain as day 100% broken. The guy doing the review is praising the product as he is paid to do (in his defense, its obvious he didn't know any better), and the fans of the page are biting hook line and sinker while im screaming at my computer saying "ITS BROKE"



http://ingunowners.com/forums/parts-...h-reading.html

ATN x-sight 3-12 (this is worth reading)
I have at least 1, and I think 2 ATN x-sight's 3-12's brand new in box like the one in this link.

https://www.amazon.com/ATN-X-Sight-R...n+x-sight+3-12

Ive had them in stock since they were first released. They dont sell well for me because I tell the customer they are crap. I bought 5, and have these 2 left. Dealer price is 400 bucks (150 off amazon). My price picked up at the 1500 is 400 cash, or 425 CC.

Here is the catch. If these break, and you learn ATN is a pain to work with then don't come to me. You have been for warned these are not great NV units (hints why they cost 550, when everything else is 2k-10k)

If you complain in 6 months that its not living up to whatever internet review you found's claim direct your complaint's to the guy who did the review, not me. At 400 bucks I wash my hands with the deal. I don't think I can be any clearer than this.

Dont offer me 400 CC, or 399 cash. Say I will take it, or move on to buy one off of Amazon for 35% more.
I too heard the X-Sight 1 series was total crap, that is why it was replaced by the II just a year later - and has been constantly going through firmware / software updates since. It is still only a Gen II (I mean my camera in my phone technically has a better pixel rate than it does) but I know it isn't as bad as the Gen 1 was. I would even concur by my research it was trash and I wouldn't have ever considered it.

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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:50 PM   #14
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I too like it simple. I use a 1X4X28 to hunt out to 300 yards where I am. You can also easily shoot 6 inch plates at 300 with this. If you go jump hunting for hogs or other critters the 1X allows you to easily acquire your target if it's moving.

My 2 cents

Thanks from swagbrdr and Dsc
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Old January 19th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #15
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I use scopes for hunting a lot! I look for the objective diameter to be 50mm. Why you ask, becuase hogs don't bask in the sun. You need all the light gathering capability you can get. As far as elk hunting goes, I don't know never been west of the ole miss. You get what you pay for with glass.

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