M14 Forum

tokiwartooth · February 9th, 2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2336USMC

Bingo....

Not sure it was originally made for the ART II, but the base is definitely Leatherwood. They are the only ones I have seen with the setscrew in the vertical rib to reinforce it, plus a lot of the other machining details match.

The weaver rail on top was added at some point for some unknown reason. Maybe you found a Leatherwood toolroom prototype for the MPC mount.

Edit: the MPC mount from Iron Sight may show up with the clip guide mount included, or they sell them also.

Well, I cancelled that order. Gonna order the clip guide mount from them. Took my rifle apart and got the receiver thumb screw to torque down nice, and with a good tight fit. I just hope the clip guide screw lines up correctly. I sent pics to Ironsights and they at first said it wasn't a Leatherwood, but I think after further investigation, they confirmed.

SOCOM16E2 · February 9th, 2012, 07:42 PM

Here are a few pictures of my ART II [dedicated], and what I too scored for only $15.00...what I believe to be a Leatherwood QD ART II base. I am currently looking for an ART II scope that's mounted to the QD platform, like in 2336USMC's picture. I’ll agree too, may be a proto? Good score!

tokiwartooth · February 9th, 2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOCOM16E2

Here are a few pictures of my ART II [dedicated], and what I too scored for only $15.00...what I believe to be a Leatherwood QD ART II base. I am currently looking for an ART II scope that's mounted to the QD platform, like in 2336USMC's picture. I’ll agree too, may be a proto? Good score!

It looks too new.

Man...Ironsights wants $60 for a damn clip guide mount... Will the Springield Armory gen III guide mount work?

SOCOM16E2 · February 9th, 2012, 08:53 PM

That, I couldn’t tell ya. A friend bought a Springfield Armory gen 3 mount, new in wrapper, and it came with a stripper clip replacement guide. It didn’t fit his SOCOM 16 so he had a local gunsmith fit it for him. Funny, I’ve always wondered when a M21 and ART II part ways, why didn’t they pull the replacement guides and attach them to the scope bases? I know there are probably a bunch of receivers / rifles / and parts bins with the guides in’m! Hell, I’ve seen just the guides at gun shows, and they go for quite a few bucks! And, you’re not guaranteed a fit. I do know Iron Sight Inc. was going to make them to Spec. yet they still might have to be fit, depending on your receiver? If your scope and base fit, just get the guide and see how it goes, maybe it works with no mods. Good luck....ps, thanks for the scope info, I just got off the site and saw it...lol. [IMG]

[/IMG] [IMG]

[/IMG]

2336USMC · February 11th, 2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOCOM16E2

I asked Mike Sexton, or it may have been Jim Leatherwood himself, years ago whether the SAI clip guide mount would work with the ART II mount and the answer was no.

SOCOM16E2, look at the two clip guide mounts you have in this photo... I think the top one shown is an SAI clip guide mount. The lower one is a Leatherwood.

I don't have the two parts here in front of me to compare, but I do have a Leatherwood clip guide on my rifle here and looking at your photos it appears the countersink where the rear adjusment sleeve around the bolt seats is different. The Leatherwood adjuster and seat are countersunk 45 degrees. It looks like the SAI is steeper, and the Leatherwood adjusting sleeve will not seat properly in that countersink.

Any chance you could get a good closeup of the two countersink areas side by side?

edit:

tokiwartooth · February 11th, 2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2336USMC

I asked Mike Sexton, or it may have been Jim Leatherwood himself, years ago whether the SAI clip guide mount would work with the ART II mount and the answer was no.

SOCOM16E2, look at the two clip guide mounts you have in this photo... I think the top one shown is an SAI clip guide mount. The lower one is a Leatherwood.

I don't have the two parts here in front of me to compare, but I do have a Leatherwood clip guide on my rifle here and looking at your photos it appears the countersink where the rear adjusment sleeve around the bolt seats is different. The Leatherwood adjuster and seat are countersunk 45 degrees. It looks like the SAI is steeper, and the Leatherwood adjusting sleeve will not seat properly in that countersink.

Any chance you could get a good closeup of the two countersink areas side by side?

edit:

I'm sure a little home machining can fix that...

SOCOM16E2 · February 11th, 2012, 03:40 PM

Here's a picture of my collection of StripperClipReplacementGuide’s so far. SCRG on far left came with the QD base [Still don’t know if it’s truly a Leatherwood base?], second SCRG I blindly bought from a dealer @ gun show hoping it would fit [When I installed it on the 14’s receiver, thumbscrew is off a hair], and the two SCRG’s and the two pilot bushings on far right I picked up @ gun show [note – the SCRG’s aren’t drilled through for the pilot bushings but are threaded]. I haven’t had the time to try all the combinations. And, to boot…I just bought a SOCOM 16 that I want to put a Nightforce 1-4x24 NXS w/ Mil-Dot w/ Badger rings using the QD base. So there it is - 2 rifles, 1 ART II w/ base, 1 QD base, and 4 SCRG’s. Which are real Leatherwoods? or SA’s? or ???...sheesh! I may just buy two guides from Iron Sight Inc., and see what happens. Also, notice the distance between the dovetail and the screw hole in the one on the left, as compared to all the other three. I am not a machinist so I will not try any metal surgery myself. I will try musical chairs with the 2 rifles and the 4 SCRG’s. If that doesn’t work, will go the Iron Sight Inc. route. Later guys. [IMG]

[/IMG]

tokiwartooth · February 11th, 2012, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOCOM16E2

Here's a picture of my collection of StripperClipReplacementGuide’s so far. SCRG on far left came with the QD base [Still don’t know if it’s truly a Leatherwood base?], second SCRG I blindly bought from a dealer @ gun show hoping it would fit [When I installed it on the 14’s receiver, thumbscrew is off a hair], and the two SCRG’s and the two pilot bushings on far right I picked up @ gun show [note – the SCRG’s aren’t drilled through for the pilot bushings but are threaded]. I haven’t had the time to try all the combinations. And, to boot…I just bought a SOCOM 16 that I want to put a Nightforce 1-4x24 NXS w/ Mil-Dot w/ Badger rings using the QD base. So there it is - 2 rifles, 1 ART II w/ base, 1 QD base, and 4 SCRG’s. Which are real Leatherwoods? or SA’s? or ???...sheesh! I may just buy two guides from Iron Sight Inc., and see what happens. Also, notice the distance between the dovetail and the screw hole in the one on the left, as compared to all the other three. I am not a machinist so I will not try any metal surgery myself. I will try musical chairs with the 2 rifles and the 4 SCRG’s. If that doesn’t work, will go the Iron Sight Inc. route. Later guys. [IMG]

[/IMG]

I ordered one from Ironsights and a SCRG/thumbscrew combo from SAI.
If neither work, I'm gonna drill and tap my own, although I'm not sure of the size and thread pitch for that rear thumbscrew. Anyone know?

2336USMC · February 12th, 2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokiwartooth

I ordered one from Ironsights and a SCRG/thumbscrew combo from SAI.
If neither work, I'm gonna drill and tap my own, although I'm not sure of the size and thread pitch for that rear thumbscrew. Anyone know?

From left to right, I'd say #1 is Leatherwood, #2 is SAI, and #3&4 are some type of no-name aftermarket. #3&4 would need at least a countersink to work with the Leatherwood mount if the holes somehow lined up.

Here's a good thread on drilling & tapping your own:

ART II scope question.

or Ted Brown can do it right. He did one for me. That's really the right way to do it if you want the mount to fit that receiver perfectly and hold zero. Also that's the way the Army did it, even with real M14/M21 rifles that had very precise tolerances on the receiver dimensions.

Also, I hate to say it, but having a standard clip guide drilled tapped & countersunk by a good M14 smith that understands scope mounts may be cheaper and much better in the long run. SCRG's at $60 a pop that may very well not fit your receiver anyway, plus removal and installation of multiple clip guides which a is a fairly delicate operation on an M14-type... the clip guide dovetail is one of the most fragile areas on an M14 receiver and people have cracked them before, plus you run the risk of wearing and loosening up the dovetail.

If you must do it the hard way, I would suggest downloading Sadlak's excellent photo how-to on removing and installing clip guides and work very carefully to minimize any wear and damage to the dovetail.

http://sadlak.com/pdf/Stripper_Clip_Guide_Removal.pdf

tokiwartooth · February 12th, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2336USMC

From left to right, I'd say #1 is Leatherwood, #2 is SAI, and #3&4 are some type of no-name aftermarket. #3&4 would need at least a countersink to work with the Leatherwood mount if the holes somehow lined up.

Here's a good thread on drilling & tapping your own:

ART II scope question.

or Ted Brown can do it right. He did one for me. That's really the right way to do it if you want the mount to fit that receiver perfectly and hold zero. Also that's the way the Army did it, even with real M14/M21 rifles that had very precise tolerances on the receiver dimensions.

Also, I hate to say it, but having a standard clip guide drilled tapped & countersunk by a good M14 smith that understands scope mounts may be cheaper and much better in the long run. SCRG's at $60 a pop that may very well not fit your receiver anyway, plus removal and installation of multiple clip guides which a is a fairly delicate operation on an M14-type... the clip guide dovetail is one of the most fragile areas on an M14 receiver and people have cracked them before, plus you run the risk of wearing and loosening up the dovetail.

If you must do it the hard way, I would suggest downloading Sadlak's excellent photo how-to on removing and installing clip guides and work very carefully to minimize any wear and damage to the dovetail.

http://sadlak.com/pdf/Stripper_Clip_Guide_Removal.pdf

Yeah, I've removed the original SAI guide, replaced with USGI, removed the USGI CG to install a new Leatherwood, remove the Leatherwood to install and ARMS18...anyway, you get the idea. I have a small brass jewelers hammer I tap it out with, no issues so far, knock on wood. The dovetail on my receiver seems pretty roomy as I don't get resistance until past halfway.

20mmsixshooter · May 1st, 2012, 10:14 PM

I just picked up one like this but it has rings built in don't know how to post pics but ebay item #150802093614
need the back screw parts have a tape guide
Jim