M14 Forum

TampaSsgt · May 11th, 2011, 04:56 AM

I actually ran into one of these "wannabe's". He claimed to have been a Navy SEAL, and I inquired if BUDs training was as bad as they claim it is. He replied, "What is BUDs?" I just walked away from him shaking my head.

Quote:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...N=US&TEMPLATE=

SEAL sleuths expose those who've faked service
May 11, 2011

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) -- As long as there have been Navy SEALs, there have been men pumping up their resumes or thumping their chests in bars with bogus claims of being one of the Navy's elite warriors.

The latest crop includes a Pennsylvania minister who let his congregation believe he was a SEAL and repeated the lie to a newspaper, and there's no sign of such bogus claims abating anytime soon, especially after a secretive team of Navy SEAL commandos killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

A retired Navy SEAL from Virginia who devotes much of his time to outing the phonies said he's receiving 40 to 50 inquiries a day from people suspicious of claims by friends, neighbors or colleagues who say they're SEALs. Their doubts are usually confirmed with just a few checks.

The Naval Special Warfare Command also receives a steady stream of inquiries about possible SEALs, the vast majority of which are debunked, said Lt. Cate Wallace, spokeswoman for the command in California.

And Larry Bailey, a retired SEAL from Chocowinity, N.C., estimates he and friends who are former SEALs have exposed 35,000 phonies through the years.

"There were about 500 SEALs that operated in Vietnam, and I've met all 20,000 of them," Waterman joked.

Wannabes lie to get free beers, to get women into bed, to further their civilian careers or to get military benefits. But what really bugs retired SEAL Don Shipley is that they're stealing someone else's valor - credit due to those who put themselves in harm's way.

"The more outrageous a story is, in a lot of cases, the more it's believed. These guys do a terrible amount of damage," said Shipley, of Chesapeake, Va.

It's easy to see why folks look up to the SEALs, trained to fight on sea, air and land, because they undergo some of the toughest military training in the world.

Out of each group of SEAL recruits, 70 percent fail to make it through a six-month training course that's a test of mental and physical toughness, said Lt. Cate Wallace, spokeswoman for the Naval Special Warfare Command in California.

Those who become bona fide SEALs wear a gold trident. There are just 2,500 on active duty, many serving in the world's most dangerous places.

What's especially frustrating about people who have been exposed as frauds, Bailey said, is when they continue lying about their service.

Wallace said that those who are blatant in their deception or threaten the public safety are turned over to the U.S. attorney's office for investigation.

In Pennsylvania, the Rev. Jim Moats from the Christian Bible Fellowship Church in Newville was called out by Shipley after he was quoted in The Patriot-News of Harrisburg talking about his life as a SEAL in Vietnam.

Later, he admitted he lied.

"It's an ego-builder, and it's just simply wrong," Moats told the newspaper.

He didn't return a call from The Associated Press.

Moats has plenty of company. These days, Bailey and several others are exposing phonies through a website, stolenvalor.com.

Steve Waterman, a retired Navy diver from South Thomaston, Maine, and a website participant, said it's easy to ferret out the real deal from the phonies. Dead giveaways are loose tongues and bravado; SEALs are discreet, Waterman said.

Waterman, author of the book "Just a Sailor," never had any desire to become a SEAL. "I watched them train. That was scary enough for me," he said.

Shipley agreed that SEALs don't talk about their exploits.

"It makes us uncomfortable," he said. "We don't like talking about it. But these (phonies), that's what they crave. They like talking about cutting people's throats."

Last weekend, several dozen SEALs joined together as a Navy warship was christened at Maine's Bath Iron Works in the name of Lt. Michael Murphy, a SEAL officer killed in Afghanistan.

Murphy scrambled into a clearing, exposing himself to a hail of Taliban gunfire in order to get a clear signal to call in reinforcements during a firefight on June 28, 2005. He was shot and later died along with two other members of his SEAL team and another 16 rescuers whose helicopter was shot down.

Nathanael "Lalo" Roberti, a former SEAL, was supposed to be on the helicopter that was shot down. He and seven others were ordered off because it was too heavy.

"I lost 11 of the best friends I've ever known, and some of the best men America has to offer," said Roberti, who lives in San Diego.

"These guys are the tip of the spear."

tmcfalls · May 11th, 2011, 06:10 AM

I like the general tone of the story on exposing fake SEALS but the section on Lt. Michael Murphy's actions the day he was killed are downplayed to such a degree that it is almost offensive to me.

He and three other SEALS put up a hell of a fight against a force of Taliban fighters numbering in the hundreds. He wasn't just shot once he was gravely wounded numerous times, yet kept fighting and killing Taliban fighters. His last act was to work his way out into the open where he could get a radio signal so he could call in help for the rest of his team, full well knowing that he would not survive doing so in the face of tremendous enemy fire.

Those 4 men put up a fight against such over whelming odds with bravery that is almost unfathomable to me and most other Americans.

GARRARD · May 11th, 2011, 10:05 AM

Last year there was a big story in the Army Times about a faker in the Florida Army National Guard. http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...faker_080910w/. A month after the story broke he resigned his commission.

Beavis1971 · May 11th, 2011, 11:34 AM

The people that lie about their service make me sick. Its not just the SEALs, people lie about being Marines or Army Spec Ops. They are sad and annoying people. Here in San Diego, fake SEALs are a dime a dozen. I knew a few of the fakes and offered to give them a ride to a reunion or a known hangout of SEALs and they nervously but quickly decline. I know some members of teams that are retired and they usually just have a laugh over the fakes. There used to be a wall of shame on the internet, I am not sure if its still up. There is a great book, Stolen Valor, I believe, that lists famous people who have lied about their service.

lefty o · May 11th, 2011, 12:00 PM

it is very true, there are more fake seals alive today, then the total # to have ever worn that pin on their chest. 99% of the time the fakers are easy to spot.

DukeRustfield · May 11th, 2011, 03:55 PM

Guys lie about all kinds of stuff like that. I never understood it, and I don't know of an equivalent lie that women do (maybe knock-off designer labels?). But I've met more green berets and seals and delta force and special forces than have probably existed since the dawn of time.

The people I tend to believe are those that don't go around with a trumpet, but you only learn about it after a year or so. There's pride, but then there's bragging. And those who have accomplished something don't have anything to prove. People who run marathons every month don't need to tell people they run marathons every month, they just say they're runners.

pendennis · May 11th, 2011, 06:53 PM

...Creek Amphibious Base, for two week active reserve duty. While I was there working in the disbursing office, I had an opportunity to watch some SEALS doing some PT at the beach. Four guys on each section of telephone pole, and they were running through the soft sand beach like they enjoyed it.

Maybe they did, but they were in the best physical shape of anyone I'd ever seen. They all had that focused look that people get, when they are concerned with doing the best they can at any moment; focused completely on the task at hand.

I later met some of them at the EM club, and they were just the most reserved guys you'd ever want to meet. No braggadocio; just lean and clear-eyed.

None better.

Sapper524 · May 11th, 2011, 07:21 PM

All the true operators I ever met in the service were VERY reserved about it in the civilian world. Watched a CPT go down in the mid 90's at Ft Bragg for wearing a ranger tab and sporting a mustard stain on his wings that he didn't earn. Im sure the number of wannabe SEALs will be on the rise with all the press over the UBL take down. Pretty disgusting ....

Rawnerves · May 11th, 2011, 08:23 PM

That's pretty sad when someone has to make up a lie to feel good about their life. I've never done anything that special but I'm just glad to be here.

DukeRustfield · May 11th, 2011, 11:29 PM

I was reading in some magazine, I think it was Hunter S. Thompson, actually, about Test Pilots. Back in the "olden' days" they were the mavericks and hot shots. But then they started doing lots of psych profiles, because they didn't want mavericks flying super experimental multi-zillion dollar aircraft. They wanted the absolute most focused, best guys. It's probably become the same with the high tier special forces. They don't want John Rambo, they want--and I mean this as a compliment--robots. Humans who are super smart, super fit, absolutely focused and confident. Not the kind of guys who generally talk trash at the local bar.

TheTurtle · May 12th, 2011, 01:30 AM

I recently crossed the path of a "special ops sniper" that had a goal of getting inside of my sister's pants... His story was that he had "82, no, 84 confirmed kills", and he had never missed a shot. The reason why he wasn't still in the military was because he got "Forest Gump'd". I didn't dare ask to see the scar.

I finally asked him where he served and he said Afghanistan. I asked wherabouts in Afghanistan and he replied "Baghdad".

I just laughed at him.

8654Maine · May 12th, 2011, 04:55 AM

^^^^^Funny!

Coffindancer · May 12th, 2011, 02:28 PM

What a bunch of miserable folks. I can feel real bad about having not attempted to become a special operations soldier, when I think back. I've passed the age limit and blown out both knees, so no go for me. But to think that some people can actually lie like that. It's disgraceful. I served in the Coast Guard as a Machinery Technician. When I'm discussing something, or telling some story, I try to make reference to being in the Coast Guard, rather than saying I was in the "military," for the exact reason that now, with the wars we have going on, I would most likely give the wrong impression. Most people would think "military" = "soldier" conducting combat. Or veteran = combat veteran. I've never wanted to come close to being a faker, because posers suck. I can talk all day about how awesome our military folks are, but I'm careful not to give the impression that I know first hand, because I wasn't there. People can be so lame, and despicable.

Coffindancer · May 12th, 2011, 02:39 PM

What a bunch of miserable folks. I can feel real bad about having not attempted to become a special operations soldier, when I think back. I've passed the age limit and blown out both knees, so no go for me. But to think that some people can actually lie like that. It's disgraceful. I served in the Coast Guard as a Machinery Technician. When I'm discussing something, or telling some story, I try to make reference to being in the Coast Guard, rather than saying I was in the "military," for the exact reason that now, with the wars we have going on, I would most likely give the wrong impression. Most people would think "military" = "soldier" conducting combat. Or veteran = combat veteran. I've never wanted to come close to being a faker, because posers suck. I can talk all day about how awesome our military folks are, but I'm careful not to give the impression that I know first hand, because I wasn't there. People can be so lame, and despicable.

pendennis · May 12th, 2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeRustfield

I was reading in some magazine, I think it was Hunter S. Thompson, actually, about Test Pilots. Back in the "olden' days" they were the mavericks and hot shots. But then they started doing lots of psych profiles, because they didn't want mavericks flying super experimental multi-zillion dollar aircraft. They wanted the absolute most focused, best guys. It's probably become the same with the high tier special forces. They don't want John Rambo, they want--and I mean this as a compliment--robots. Humans who are super smart, super fit, absolutely focused and confident. Not the kind of guys who generally talk trash at the local bar.

If you can still find it, read Tom Wolfe's book, "The Right Stuff". While the movie was a take-off on the book, it doesn't nearly do the book justice. Also read Chuck Yeager's books. He was no hot dog. He was as cool as they come when it came to test piloting.

In General Yeager's first book, he details how a top WWII ace, Richard I Bong was killed in a P80/F80 Shooting Star. Pilot error, and no experience as a test pilot.