M14 Forum

TampaSsgt · April 24th, 2011, 02:58 PM

The New "Politically Correct" Navy??

Since I was in the Army, I never had the pleasure of serving onboard a United States Navy Vessel of War. My question to those of you who have is this.

Is the 'alleged' lewd behavior problem and hazing incident problems really that bad on board a ship out at sea as the Navy is attempting to make it out to be?

Or is this just the Navy's way of making an 'example' out of some officers just to convince the "Politically Correct" Obama Administration and his Politicians, that they are on top of things, and to keep them out of the Navy's hair?

Quote:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/apr...news-breaking/

Two top Navy officers relieved of duties
April 24, 2011

NORFOLK, Va. - The U.S. Navy says two top officers of a Virginia-based ship have been relieved of their duties after an investigation into hazing and other incidents aboard the vessel.

The Navy says Cmdr. Etta Jones, commanding officer of the Norfolk-based Ponce, was relieved Saturday because she failed to properly investigate, report and hold sailors accountable for hazing incidents. The Navy says she also failed to properly handle a handgun during a security alert, which endangered some of her crew.

The Navy says Lt. Cmdr. Kurt Boenisch, the ship's executive officer, was removed because of his failure to provide support to the command and commanding officer.

In January, an officer was fired from his command of the Norfolk-based USS Enterprise amid an investigation into lewd videos broadcast aboard the ship.

The only definite offense I saw was Cmdr. Etta Jones who failed to properly handle a handgun during a security alert, which endangered some of her crew. Now, IMHO, that appears to be a valid problem which needs to be rectified.

But the other stuff described here seems to be 'the boys, just being the boys'. Am I wrong in that assumption?

I remember one Friday night they had canceled all leaves and ordered us to be down at the mess hall by 2000 hrs. in civies.

We were pissed, but found out later that several 'exotic dancer's had been hired and they were the entertainment for the night. Heck, our 1st. Sgt, all the Platoon Sgts, and all of the Squad Leaders sat with us and enjoyed the show. There is no doubt in my mind that they had paid for it.

So, in a matter such as this, would we all be in legal trouble with the UCMJ if we did the same thing like that today?

... and if so, then that is a damn shame.

dwight55 · April 24th, 2011, 03:54 PM

Well, Sarge, . . . best I can figure, . . . once you tack on that O5 designation, . . . you better be reorganizing your cranium for political duty, . . . instead of intelligent officer type duty, . . . for impressing the paparazzi, . . . not for leading men/women in war/battle/etc.

I had every opportunity in the world to become an officer, . . . even thought I'd look really good in those starched whites, . . . but that is the one and only reason I DID NOT do it.

The Navy has gotten a whole lot more chicken _ _ _ _ about stuff since I got out too.

The instances you quoted are just the tip of the crap our military is stuck with now a days.

May God bless,
Dwight

M1A's r BEST · April 24th, 2011, 06:23 PM

To me hazing might be sending a guy from one place to another looking for an op rod wrench or the keys to the nearby parade field.

But sometimes, with some people, it gets out of hand. When I was at Ft. Myer, VA some of the new dumb asses sent one guy to the hospital with chemical burns on his privates. They messed with another guy so bad he packed his shit up and drove back to his previous station in California (Camp Hunter Leggett) as no one would stop what was going on and he reached the end of his ability to handle what was happening. Who got in trouble for that shit? Not the guys doing it. The guy who drove back to California was AWOL and got an article thirteen.

It can get bad even faster when the start getting drunk.

I have no sympathy for any one who gets their butts busted for harrassing/hazing/messing with someone who just want to get along and learn to do their job.

lefty o · April 24th, 2011, 06:35 PM

what the heck is the commanding officer of a ship doing with a firearm? used to be the CO, or CDO would get a armed guard during security alerts.

Daves762 · April 24th, 2011, 07:07 PM

When I was active duty Navy I saw some political BS that you wouldn't Believe...

The PC even effects missions. Like lets just say that a ship is on "counter Narcotics" operations and the crew has evidence of drug smuggling.......

If the suspect vessel is flying the wrong flag, like one from a country that doesn't support the war on drugs.......... they are simply let go.............

Swear to God.........

Not to mention the promotion of people who have the most UNSAT records of performance or knowledge or ability, or even integrity........because of their racial or sexual status...

and the guys who are busting butt to keep the ship if tip top shape, are simply passed over..................

Swear to God.,

I almost went to Captains mast (court martial for all you bullet sponges) because I refused to attend the awards ceremony for a man who was getting pinned with MY Navy/Marine Corps achievement medal....literally had his duties stripped and dumped onto me because of incompetence and lying........and then 6 months later, after I did his job and mine, he was pinned.......the excuse given was "you already have two of these and he doesn't have one."

I made it to E5 in 2 yrs 8 months, and got out after one 4 yr enlistment because this PC crap was so bad........

It will be the undoing of our Nation.....

RAMMAC · April 24th, 2011, 07:16 PM

The Navy's policy on hazing

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/navy/s...st/1610_2a.pdf

My guess is that they had sailors or Marines that complained about hazing and she (the C.O.) told them to quit whining and deal with it. That is against policy. For instance, when we crossed the equator and the ship scheduled their shellback ceremony I refused to participate (sorry, but I don't like any initiation games). On my ship they said OK and had us sit in a compartment and wait for the ceremony to finish. This was still borderline forced hazing because we were threatened with all kinds of bull if we didn't participate but we had just gotten back from almost a year in country during Desert Shield/ Storm and we weren't in the mood to be jerked with. We were willing to kick somebody's ass if we had to.

Some of these shipboard hazing traditions can get really stupid. Personally I'm not in to crawling around on my hands and knees all over a ship with some 18 year old kid spanking me with a fire hose and then crawling through garbage just so I can eat food out of a fat guy's navel.

The only way I can imagine that she would have been accused of endangering anybody with a sidearm is if it actually went off. Nobody is going to accuse her of much of anything if she is just being a jerk but if she actually has an accidental discharge somebody is going to be pissed.

It sounds to me like she was a bitch, tyrant that was out of control. She was probably one of those broads that thinks she has to be an ass to prove that she is in charge. Her X.O. was relieved too and I think that the higher command felt that he should have stepped in and gotten her under control but didn't do it.

parashooter · April 24th, 2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1A's r BEST

To me hazing might be sending a guy from one place to another looking for an op rod wrench or the keys to the nearby parade field.

But sometimes, with some people, it gets out of hand. When I was at Ft. Myer, VA some of the new dumb asses sent one guy to the hospital with chemical burns on his privates. They messed with another guy so bad he packed his shit up and drove back to his previous station in California (Camp Hunter Leggett) as no one would stop what was going on and he reached the end of his ability to handle what was happening. Who got in trouble for that shit? Not the guys doing it. The guy who drove back to California was AWOL and got an article thirteen.

It can get bad even faster when the start getting drunk.

I have no sympathy for any one who gets their butts busted for harrassing/hazing/messing with someone who just want to get along and learn to do their job.

No offense to anyone, I wasn't Navy, I was Army. It sounds like these two individuals need to grow a pair and bust some heads. That usually solved the problem where I came from. If not, sucks to be us........Good old USA

TampaSsgt · April 24th, 2011, 09:18 PM

So, what about the situation I described ...

Quote:

... found out later that several 'exotic dancer's had been hired and they were the entertainment for the night. Heck, our 1st. Sgt, all the Platoon Sgts, and all of the Squad Leaders sat with us and enjoyed the show. There is no doubt in my mind that they had paid for it.

So, in a matter such as this, would we all be in legal trouble with the UCMJ if we did the same thing like that today?

2336USMC · April 24th, 2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaSsgt

So, what about the situation I described ...

So, in a matter such as this, would we all be in legal trouble with the UCMJ if we did the same thing like that today?

One word- "Tailhook"

BrokenVet · April 24th, 2011, 09:55 PM

Yup, no Hazing, but I here Wog day still happens

TampaSsgt · April 24th, 2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2336USMC

One word- "Tailhook"

Well then I guess I am glad that I served back when rather than today ...

Too much political correct, gotta worry about what the womens lib 'progressives' think, bull

it today.

We didn't have to worry about that crap, because we were all male, and all heterosexual, and we all had the same thing on our mind - getting laid and getting home.

GARRARD · April 25th, 2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaSsgt

So, in a matter such as this, would we all be in legal trouble with the UCMJ if we did the same thing like that today?

That's just it, a good CO keeps control and can have some fun with the boys without getting caught. I've read the stories about skippers getting relieved over the last few years and usually they had it coming. It usually boils down to them not acting like professionals. The guy that lost command of the Enterprise wouldn't have gotten in trouble except for the fact that he was the skipper and the skipper should not be on ship wide broadcasts acting like a fool for all to see. Then there was a female that lost her command a year or two ago because she was being a bitch and her crew set her up for failure.

defendhawaii · April 26th, 2011, 12:17 AM

ive done six years in the USN from 97 -03 and let me tell you its still a part of the Navy.... almost tradition you might say 200 yrs and counting.......i for one have been part of the hazing ritual on both the administering and recieving end.....the modern ritual of wog day is a command approved hazing which signify s a sailors passing of the equator it is kinda weak from what i heard from old salty chiefs and nothing compared too the hazing that goes on under the radar.....the first time i was hazed is when i made petty officer third class...its the same as tacking on the stripes as in other branches ..the brass frowns upon it and knows its happening but turn the other way as too approve of the tradition unless someone gets seriously injured and unable too perform thier dutys......let me add its not fun being a pineapple and trying too dodge other hawaiians ,samoans and other pacific islanders that are after you too tack on that stripe......the second was when i earned my surface and air warfare pins those where tacked on the chest unlike the stripes on my arms.........was i in pain??? hell yeah ....did i man up and not report it ??? hell yeah .... it all comes down too pride tradition and belonging....isnt that whats being part of the military about??? hell yeah ......but like the other comment that was made there is a fine line between hazing and f***** someone up ...........

redmonster13 · October 14th, 2011, 11:29 PM

Yes there is hazing, it is part of navy tradition. Wog day, tacking the crow, chiefs initiation, blue nose, but my least favorite was the hanging upside down in a laundry bag while getting doused with buckets of water and beat with fire hose on your birthday. The last one might have just been on the indy but it sucked to be on the recieving end.

anyone want to grab me a BT punch?

jake2far · October 15th, 2011, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1A's r BEST

To me hazing might be sending a guy from one place to another looking for an op rod wrench or the keys to the nearby parade field.

But sometimes, with some people, it gets out of hand. When I was at Ft. Myer, VA some of the new dumb asses sent one guy to the hospital with chemical burns on his privates. They messed with another guy so bad he packed his shit up and drove back to his previous station in California (Camp Hunter Leggett) as no one would stop what was going on and he reached the end of his ability to handle what was happening. Who got in trouble for that shit? Not the guys doing it. The guy who drove back to California was AWOL and got an article thirteen.

It can get bad even faster when the start getting drunk.

I have no sympathy for any one who gets their butts busted for harrassing/hazing/messing with someone who just want to get along and learn to do their job.

Possible you meant Article 15? An Article 13 is prohibition of punishment prior to trial. Link provided:
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...j/blart-13.htm

Jim