M14 Forum

nSquid · December 31st, 2011, 03:14 PM

Next post...

7 June 1978 - the Caribbean. America sleeps soundly because these men are on a nuclear submarine, with nuclear weapons, and they know how to use them!

BDH · December 31st, 2011, 03:34 PM

I'm not sure which side I'm on on this issue. When women first came on surface ships (ADs & ASs - tenders) it was a crap shoot. There were no average women, excellent or below average. I think that it's a little more average now. The bloom is off the rose and for most, it's a job. I ran Radcon on a destroyer tender and had female nucs that could go 2 places...a tender or a prototype. Three years later, a sub tender, and the same situation. Both FBMs I rode certainly could have supported women, but attitudes then were pretty negative. The changes are societal and driven from above, not from below.

By the way, I see women in the military every day...I work on a different base almost each day, including Marine Corps bases...and there are very few 95-120# women. If you want a 120 pounder to pull you some where, it had better be a Marine. They are trained better. Then again, no women Marines on subs...oh well.

Bruce

Mindfield · December 31st, 2011, 04:33 PM

Remeber when Clinton fast tracked all those female officers in the fleet, many commanded and they were, as expected, finally mired in all sorts of violation and wrongdoing because they werent qualified but got the job because they were female??

This is whats gonna happen here IMO

20mmsixshooter · December 31st, 2011, 05:15 PM

I was on the orion when they brought the first female officer on it was in Italy Island of Sardinia 81 she was doing so many guys and getting paid the capt ordered her to marry one the chief or get out. Isolation duty and only one female on board 18 month rotation. (this is what we were told) cover your back side coment

I could not get instructor duty because the females could not do the job out in the fleet so they all got shore duty can't lift a 90lb ammo can of 20mm I could dead lift it over my head up through a hatch one handed.

the real fun was back for a sea school up in great mistakes I was standing quoter deck watch morning one of them came bepoping down to get a phone call in just a white t shirt I informed her to get off the qdeck and get some proper atire on before she could get the phone she came back with her first class bimbo
she came up to me from the back just spouting off at the mouth I turned with a chest full of ribbons and three hash marks and told her to get of my qdeck or she would go up to see the capt also she looks at my uniform and told the little twit to go get dressed.

it went down hill from there so far that as a golden shell Back They ask me to be part of going over the line with females that just wanted to watch and some of the limp rist men also I just said no I will not be part of this disrespect of tradition

boy thats bin in me a long time been 20 years since I got out

nSquid · December 31st, 2011, 06:35 PM

20mm...

Glad to pull the trigger on pent up frustration. It will be different on subs. Sure, men are men and women are women, but the technology and the training are more intense than non-nuke. When you are passing through 400 feet and you hear the Emergency Blow a second time you don't really care who is steering the boat, just that they stop the downward plunge.

As to females filling shore billets, well, for me it was Filipino (sp) nationals. Spoke perfect English except when they talked to us Americans. Then they spoke "g00k" English. I was in after the Forest Fire and sat through all the race relations lectures. Navy tried to tell me I had a bias against African-Americans. Heck, I was a poor white boy from western Oregon: first "black" I ever talked to was at college, and he was a pretty normal guy. But Filipinos, that was different. Couldn't hold a security clearance, couldn't be trusted on a sub. So they filled shore billets and all us nukes and FTBs and Torpeckermen got to stay at sea another 3-4 years.

I have no problem with women on subs. They might have been bad luck on ships in the past, but ships are Skimmers and Skimmers are just targets. Nuke sub is a space ship, closest thing I will ever experience to getting to Mars. How I would love to be on Mars...

TheTurtle · December 31st, 2011, 07:39 PM

Standard issue chastity belt anyone?

Goofnutman · February 29th, 2012, 07:07 AM

As a submariner on a sub that didn't exist, I have issues with this. It certainly isn't about abilities or equality. It's about privacy and close quarters. Additionally, you can joke around with guys (i.e. VENT) that would be inappropriate with women on board. This will add yet another level of stress.

BTW, OP... nice avatar. If it is from the same place I got mine... it's copywrited.

nSquid · February 29th, 2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MackR

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....

A warship, especially a submarine, is no place for a woman.

Most career Navymen will tell you the same thing.....they don't like this equal opportunity B.S. with women being forced upon their domains. It creates more problems that is solves.

The problem it DOES solve is the abysmal state of knowledge in our kids coming out of high schools and colleges nationwide.

Adm. Rickover was in Congress as far back as the 1960s and 70s complaining he could not crew submarines and bird farms with enough qualified people. The problem has only worsened to the point we HAVE to crew with women to get enough brains at sea. Dumb grunts to pound dirt are no problem; we got lots of stupid kids with no skills beyond texting while driving.

Yes, this could be a bad thing, but the Israelis have shown that women in the battlefield can be made to work, and if I had a choice of American turning into a Bigger-Better United Kingdom or a Bigger-Better Israel, I will take Israel, and I am NOT jewish, but I do work remotely with Brits.

Gearjammer · February 29th, 2012, 07:27 AM

The

U.S.S. Dill Doe

U.S.S Vie Brator

U.S.S. Phalis

Beavis1971 · February 29th, 2012, 07:54 AM

The Love Boat, now with dive capability.

Blademaker · February 29th, 2012, 08:47 AM

I can see both sides, I was an air winger when this all started back in the early 90's. We had two WM's in our unit, one was outstanding, used leverage and technique to muscle the gear and equipment and do the job, and was professional all the way. The other went in open contract expecting to get a secretary position and was absolutely useless.

The female sailors I've seen were about on par size wise of a lot of the male sailors I've seen. I spent most of my time on gator freighters and there was some problems with some of the girls sleeping around and messing up moral. It seemed some were outstanding at there job, but a lot were just filling a slot. Didn't seem to be much middle ground then. And frankly, not to insult the navy guys, but I'd rather a 95 pound girl that knows her job coming down a ladder to save my but than some of the 95 pound male sailors I've been around that didn't know there job and could care less.

The biggest thing there has to be professionalism.

jbrooks · February 29th, 2012, 09:11 AM

Good grief... 3 women together in a single room for 4 to 6 months...

Do they somehow think women officers will handle things differently than women. enlisteds..?

JWB

Thor · February 29th, 2012, 09:51 AM

I'll find out soon enough. My sister graduated from the Academy this summer. Majored in nuclear physics and minored in Russian. After Post Grad school she will sent to subs.

dprice3844444 · February 29th, 2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

PX/BX: 1 reviews, 100% Do you think it's the shape of the sub that attracts the female submariners?

no,it's the huge batteries

BDH · February 29th, 2012, 02:12 PM

Social engineering it is, but it's here to stay. I was on a destroyer tender (AD-37) when women first were assigned to ships (about 1980) and it had its issues, but now it's pretty seamless. The women assigned to me in RadCon were either stellar or flops. The bad ones were weeded out quickly. On the next tender, AS-37, it worked much better. What was problematic at the time was nuclear-trained women had few choices in rotation due to minimal sea billets. Now it's even worse...only 1 or 2 tenders are left and probably manned by civilians (Guam I think). But...I've been out if it since I retired so I only know what I hear from my clients.

Submarines will have very little impact because it's only 4 per boat and in officer country. When i was on the Hale (SSBN 623G) and the Calhoun (SSBN 630G), we could have had room for women officers and it would have worked, except it was too early for the experiment to succeed. Now, women are better integrated into the fabric of the military.

MMC(SS) Ret. - 1968-1989 - EWS, RCSS, ERS, Leading ELT, etc. etc. etc. - Now others go to sea in ships and boy am I happy! Someday I'll hear how this experiment worked out. But...I don't think Rickover's rolling in his grave yet.

Bruce