M14 Forum

Jason0839

I just spent a few days in Norfolk to perform my older brother’s Re-enlistment (Im a Marine Officer). While I visited the USS Wisconsin, wow what a ship!!! I am in utter and complete awe with that beast. Why the Gov thinks that the best place for her and her sisters is some form of dry dock is beyond me. Yes, the gov has strict rules on how they are to be treated and that the ships must be able to be re-activated in the shortest amount of time, it’s still sad.

Today a modern Destroyer has two 5 inch guns, the BB has 10!!!! A few of the 5” guns were removed in the late 1980’s for 8 tomahawk missile launcher pods ( I believe there were 8, I forget) And we haven’t even mentioned the 16/50’s that can toss a 2700lb projectile over 25 miles. Today’s light destroyers are fast but good luck if they are hit by a torpedo, the Iowa Class hull is still unmatched in strength and protection.
In the 1960’d when the US Gov was trying to get Vietnam to the piece table North Vietnam wouldn’t agree until the BB’s were pulled off their coasts. In the late 19th Century Commodore Perry forced Japan to trade with us by parking his BB’s of their coast and we received retribution when our BB’s were bombed at Pearl.

There is a sense of pride with the BB, something a Air Craft Carrier doesn’t have. Got a problem with pirates in Somalia? Send in the BB. Need to calm down Libya, yep there is a BB for that too!

There is a glimmer of hope, the last one, the USS Iowa is still in Dry Dock, it isn’t a museum yet. There is law on the books stating that the US has to have at least one BB. I hope the Iowa is re-commissioned but the new Debt Ceiling calls for cut backs in defense, so it will be a hard sell. The Iowa’s three sisters are museums, no need to make her one too. Keep her preserved and when the money is there bring her back. For long range stuff she has the cruise missiles, short range is covered by the 5’” guns, and those glorious 16” rifled guns can cover my but when I storm a beach! If the BB’s were around when I raised my right hand I might have gone Navy, Im Marine to the bone, but the thought of commanding all that fire power and her crew is just awe inspiring!

[img]http://www.g1gallery.com/assets/images/mid00187.jpg

BigBuckeye

You will never see an Iowa on active duty again... To my knowledge, even the Iowa has now been offered up as a museum ship.

They are ridiculously expensive to operate and require large crews.

Only the BigJ was active durring Vietnam...

CPTKILLER

Somehow, the Navy has learned from WW2 landings, Korea, Vietnam or even Lebanon not to mention the Gulf Wars. The unique capability to support a landing simply doesn't exist in too many navies anymore. The same happened to the Brit's in the Falklands.

During the Easter Invasion, destroyers were running along the coast and quickly shot out the tubes on their 5" 54's. They were in Danang harbor replacing them. Now there are even less guns on current destroyers.

It seems like no one is reading anything at Quantico.

IC2(SS)19Z50C5

QUOTE=Jason0839;718506] There is a sense of pride with the BB, something a Air Craft Carrier doesn’t have. [/QUOTE]

Excellent Posting, Yes I have visited the “Big Whisky” myself when I went to my Skimmer/Target “E” Division reunion in Norfolk, VA back in Aug of 06. I have also toured her sister ship (BB-63) when she was in a DECOM status at PSNS, Bremerton, WA and also where she now reposes at Ford Island, PH. Yes, the IOWA class and the previous SOUTH DAKOTA and NORTH CAROLINA class battleships were the pinnacle of American Naval technology and additionally epitomized our nation’s ability as an industrial super power.
Sadly today our country could not even begin to be able to build such magnificent ships.. (Yes some would say what about Nuclear Aircraft Carriers???.. well whatever, they are nothing more than a floating airfield with no class, with not much difference between them and a container ship for me personally).
But today sadly, the heavy industrial works needed to build large caliber guns and castings only exist in China, (Go figure.) Jason0839, If you or anyone else enjoys touring battleships I highly suggest visiting Battleship Park in Mobile, AL (BB-60) and also Wilmington, S.C. (BB-55). Both location offer excellent walking tours throughout the ships, where you can visit all levels of a 16” main battery turret, from the powder handling flat up through the projectile flats, electrical deck and finally the gun house.
Jason0839, as a Marine you will enjoy the Marine Detachment’s compartment in the NORTH CAROLINA. As I remember, there are pictures of every Marine assigned to her, all combat veterans of Pacific campaigns.
As a former Snipe I highly appreciated the well preserved engineering spaces in both ships also. If you or anyone else would like to view more interesting battleship pictures, go to the next two websites:
http://www.navsource.org/
http://www.navweaps.com/
And finally checkout and OP-755 and OP-769 at the below website… You can get lost for hours viewing fabulous technical data and illustrations…
http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/GS-USN-PAGE.html
Enjoy…..

Hamstrosity

I got to see the New Jersey when they were getting ready to decommision her - it's a memory that gives me the warm 'n fuzzies every time I think about it.

The Iowa BB's are definatley something to behold. It's too bad they can't find a way to keep at least one running..

lefty o

i watched both the new jersey, and missouri towed out of long beach when they were decomm'd, and am 100% certain you will never see an Iowa class BB sail under her own steam again. even back in 91/92, the estimate was that it cost in excess of 1 million dollars just to untie a BB from the pier.

Swamp Rat

Great ships, but hugely expensive to operate. That, and shore bombardment never did have a good effect.

CPTKILLER

I agree with all of you but the Battleship Texas alone could & did put more firepower on a beach than the entire US Navy can prior to landing on an enemy shore. There is still nothing to fill that void if a determined enemy decides to defend a foreign area against a marine landing force. Since Vietnam, we've been lucky.

Swamp Rat

Not really. Survey teams after Pacific battles concluded that shore bombardment only told the enemy that we were coming.

BigBuckeye

The Big J was so affective with her shore bombardments off Vietnam that she interupted the peace negotiations.

Boom Stick

I used to go to Wilmington NC regularly when I was at Camp Lejeune and me and my buddies visited the USS North Carolina one day. Had some massive guns on it and you could go into the turret of the gun and use the sight. Very high magnification and very impressive. Those ships could put the hurt on something.

BigBuckeye

The North Carolina and Washington were actually "unbalanced" ships. US BB' s were built to be able to sustain fire from a ship with the same size guns as theirs. The North Carolinas were originally designed for 14" guns but at the last minute when it was learned that the Japanese were not going to abide by the Washington treaty, they were upguned to 16".

pendennis

It's not only the huge maintenance cost, but the fact that the 16" naval rifle is a thing of the past.

While those old analog fire computers were amazingly effective, the fact is that modern cruise missiles and smart bombs can do in one round, what the big 16" took an entire salvo to do.

The 16" rifles are only good for a little over 200 rounds before they have to be removed and relined. That's a lot of down time and repair, if you're trying to stay in the fight. And who wants to handle powder bags of black powder? Fortunately, in WWII, the BB's remained as gun platforms which could put fire down on an enemy up to fifteen or twenty miles inland. We had lots of them, and they were invaluable both the Atlantic and Pacific campaigns.

Prior to Pearl Harbor, admirals such as Halsey, Spruance, and Nimitz already knew that they battleship would probably be more of a hindrance than an asset. One only has to read the history of Guadalcanal to see how effective our navy was in night fighting and ship-to-ship engagements.

Today, a converted SSBN submarine can launch a cruise missile standing off shore a couple of hundred miles; or a bomber can put a smart bomb on top of the enemy within feet of the target. Cruisers and destroyers no longer look like the CA and DD ships of WWII. Neither do they act tactically like their progeny. The Arleigh M. Burke class have no semblance to the Fletcher class.

For the same reason we don't put Springfield 1903's in the hands of our infantry, we have evolved our naval and air tactics commensurate with technology changes.

I've had the chance to tour USS New Jersey and USS Massachusetts. They're great museums and reminders of our navy heritage, but they're long past usefulness in modern warfare.

Jason0839

Kind of, there have been proposals but the gov response is that they dont like the terms. At the beginning of the year when the Iowa was brought up in Congress there were debates about her need still, and talks of how us Marines need them. In WWII a Iowa class could but a projectile in a 100yd square, and before they were shelved again in the 90's plans were being drawn up to add GPS guidance liken to the GPU series of once dumb bombs and the artilery copper head projectile.

Everyone is right, there are smarter and better weapons out there. I cant argue any of those points. However the big Gov must think there is still a glimmer of hope. All of the Iowa class ships have strict rules on how they are used as Museums. I visited the NC a few months ago and was a little sad at the site of all the cuts and welds that were created when she was turned into a Museum.

The Wisconsin was mothballed in 1958 and not pulled out until the late 80's with Reagan's 600 ship campaign. Heck she's basically new, unlike the NJ who saw a long career.

Swamp Rat

Good thing we didn't land troops.