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Barrel / gas cylinder mounted bi-pod?

This is a discussion on Barrel / gas cylinder mounted bi-pod? within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I have a couple of nice "T" nuts JB welded into the stock of my SOCOM II. It would definitely accept some of the mini ...


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Old March 6th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #1
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Barrel / gas cylinder mounted bi-pod?

I have a couple of nice "T" nuts JB welded into the stock of my SOCOM II. It would definitely accept some of the mini rails and in turn a rail mounted bipod. That doesn't seem like a combat preferrable mount to me. Didn't the BAR bipod attach to the barrel / gas cylinder?

Wouldn't the barrel / gas cylinder be a better bipod attachment point for the M1A? I know my SOCOM doesn't have much room up there but on an 18" or 22" barrel it could work.

Has there ever been one mounted there and if not why not?

Enquiring minds want to know.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 10:05 AM   #2
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Why would a barrel/gas cylinder mount be better?

I'm a newb when it comes to 14s, but as a general rule, I don't like barrel mounted bipods, slings or anything else that may put pressure on the barrel and change the point of impact. The whole point of free floating a barrel is to isolate it from such forces.

As I understand it, most 14 barrels are not free floated--the front band is pulling the barrel down. As a result, you may not see a big difference between a barrel mounted bipod and one mounted on the stock. Unless you want to use a USGI bipod for historical accuracy, I'd put the bipod on the stock.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 10:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons View Post
Why would a barrel/gas cylinder mount be better?

I'm a newb when it comes to 14s, but as a general rule, I don't like barrel mounted bipods, slings or anything else that may put pressure on the barrel and change the point of impact. The whole point of free floating a barrel is to isolate it from such forces.

As I understand it, most 14 barrels are not free floated--the front band is pulling the barrel down. As a result, you may not see a big difference between a barrel mounted bipod and one mounted on the stock. Unless you want to use a USGI bipod for historical accuracy, I'd put the bipod on the stock.
What Essayons said, any time you add/change anything to the barrel or GC, you are changing the barrel harmonics. The less add ons you have hanging out there, the better off you are. dozier

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Old March 6th, 2011, 10:30 AM   #4
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for an area fire full auto weapon, mounting a bi-pod on a barrel is just fine. for best accuracy, mounting a bi-pod on the barrel or gas cylinder is not recomended.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #5
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I probably didn't frame my question properly let me try again

The first time I slam this b**ch down dropping into the prone and the bipod cracks off of the stock you'll know why I don't think that a stock mount such a good idea.

The ocd focus on accuracy on this forum is making me tired. Folks, let's face it with a 16" barrel we are talking about a MAN SIZED TARGET system. ROGER? If accuracy is the only problem then I'll take my chances with Kentucky windage and a bipod that won't crack off.

And I guess I'd like to hear from folks with actual experience if it is all the same to everyone.

Yeah, I know it's an open forum blah blah blah.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #6
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WOW!!!! ive done quite a bit of shooting off of bi pods, but im not a hack, and all mine have always stayed attached to the stock. for some of us, we require more accuracy than man sized targets, but your right its an open forum, and YOU asked the question, but you have already decided on your own answer, so why did you ask in the first place?!

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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:18 PM   #7
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As I said, I don't think I framed it properly the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
WOW!!!! ive done quite a bit of shooting off of bi pods, but im not a hack, and all mine have always stayed attached to the stock. for some of us, we require more accuracy than man sized targets, but your right its an open forum, and YOU asked the question, but you have already decided on your own answer, so why did you ask in the first place?!
So can you go standing to prone without worry with your bipod mount?

Or would something like this be better?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=936770

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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butzbach View Post
The first time I slam this b**ch down dropping into the prone and the bipod cracks off of the stock you'll know why I don't think that a stock mount such a good idea.

The ocd focus on accuracy on this forum is making me tired. Folks, let's face it with a 16" barrel we are talking about a MAN SIZED TARGET system. ROGER? If accuracy is the only problem then I'll take my chances with Kentucky windage and a bipod that won't crack off.

And I guess I'd like to hear from folks with actual experience if it is all the same to everyone.

Yeah, I know it's an open forum blah blah blah.
with that kind of attitude i dont think you will get any more answers
the answeres you got already where fact not guessing and you didnt want to hear them so i would say you just killed this thread

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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #9
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Any one of the military operator's manuals for the M14 and M14A1/E2 would answer your question, I recommend FM 23-8.

Also, using the search function right here on the forum, plugging in "bipod" turns up gems like this thread from just a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/showthr...ighlight=bipod

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Old March 6th, 2011, 12:56 PM   #10
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Smile Bipod Mounting

There's been a couple of good points and a couple of not so good points made here. Mounting the M2 bipod on the M14 gas cylinder lock worked fine as applied to the M14A1 SAR. Full auto is meant to spray bullets all over anyway. There are two very good reasons not to use the M2 bipod on your commercial M14 rifles. First it's very detrimental to accuracy. Second it tends to cause damage to the gas cylinder and stock. Some folks may not care about these things and I think the M2 is a good solution for them. It didn't matter much to the military. They never worried about damage or ware and tear.

Some are concerned about stock damage that may be caused by dropping the rifle on it's stock mounted bipod. This is reasonable since many bipods are mounted with small Harris buttons attached directly in the drain hole at the front of the stock. This is the weakest point on the stock and not a preferable position of attachment. One should keep in mind that the M14 stock was never designed to have a bipod attached directly to it.

There are however mounts that can be attached that will work well and be strong enough for most applications. This includes the Harris 2R mount that can be epoxied into the stock or (my favorite) inletting so the plate can be drilled ant tapped for a screw that enters through the front hole of the standard sling swivel mount. This is a very strong set up.

There are several rail mounts that replace the front swivel assembly. These are strong and easy to work with. Many of the high end bipods mount to these rails.

No matter what system you choose, reasonably careful handling of your rifle will help prevent damage. There is no excuse for abuse outside of war.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 01:19 PM   #11
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Looks to me like lefty o gave you about the most concise answer. The military attached the bi-pod to the gas cylinder and for field use against men it was OK and solid but it did and does effect accuracy.

As for those with a little experience using a bi-pod, I have a GG&G bi-pod but I use it on my JAE stocked rifle only. Right now that stock is on my SOCOM 16 so I could use the bi-pod with it but like you said, that platform is not a bench rifle so why bother? In fact I'm only using the stock while I develop a good load, after that I will most likely go back to a wood stock and I have no intention of using a bi-pod with it, to me it's a total waste of time on a short barreled rifle. Besides, why bother when I can use a pack, my jacket, or just about anything else as a field expedient rest. To me, the concept of the SOCOM 16 is that it is a quick to handle weapon that can be maneuvered easily in the field, so why add junk to the front that will slow down my ability to swing the weapon and will increase the chances of getting it caught in the brush.

In my experience, bi-pods only serve two purposes; to provide a rest when no other is available for an accurized weapon, or to help hold a full auto weapon down when you are in a prepared fighting position. For me, the need to help control a full auto rifle is not a concern and while I do have a loaded model that I will be putting a JAE stock on, I still don't plan on using the bi-pod all that often. I usually fire the loaded from a bench and I wont use a bi-pod from a hard topped surface, that just decreases the accuracy. I will keep the bi-pod for that rare occasion that I might find it necessary but I don't expect to use it very often.

I do have to chuckle a little, if you are getting a little tired of the attitude about accuracy then why would you be interested in bi-pods to begin with. That was just rhetorical, I don't really care, it's your business,not mine.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #12
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Mr. Brown thanks for your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Brown View Post
There's been a couple of good points and a couple of not so good points made here. Mounting the M2 bipod on the M14 gas cylinder lock worked fine as applied to the M14A1 SAR. Full auto is meant to spray bullets all over anyway. There are two very good reasons not to use the M2 bipod on your commercial M14 rifles. First it's very detrimental to accuracy. Second it tends to cause damage to the gas cylinder and stock. Some folks may not care about these things and I think the M2 is a good solution for them. It didn't matter much to the military. They never worried about damage or ware and tear.

Some are concerned about stock damage that may be caused by dropping the rifle on it's stock mounted bipod. This is reasonable since many bipods are mounted with small Harris buttons attached directly in the drain hole at the front of the stock. This is the weakest point on the stock and not a preferable position of attachment. One should keep in mind that the M14 stock was never designed to have a bipod attached directly to it.

There are however mounts that can be attached that will work well and be strong enough for most applications. This includes the Harris 2R mount that can be epoxied into the stock or (my favorite) inletting so the plate can be drilled ant tapped for a screw that enters through the front hole of the standard sling swivel mount. This is a very strong set up.

There are several rail mounts that replace the front swivel assembly. These are strong and easy to work with. Many of the high end bipods mount to these rails.

No matter what system you choose, reasonably careful handling of your rifle will help prevent damage. There is no excuse for abuse outside of war.
Mr. Brown,

Thanks for your considered response. Unfortunately, war is exactly what I am preparing for. It seems apparent to me after reading your post that I am trying to cover too many different scenarios with one weapon system. I was hoping of course to limit the number of different required spare parts by limiting the number of systems. Just reaffirming what we all know - namely that the M14 was never designed to have a bipod mounted to the stock - clarifies things for me.

Thanks again.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 01:58 PM   #13
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Control, the "other" reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMAC View Post
I do have to chuckle a little, if you are getting a little tired of the attitude about accuracy then why would you be interested in bi-pods to begin with. That was just rhetorical, I don't really care, it's your business,not mine.
As you mentioned in your post, control of a weaon during automatic fire is the "other" legitimate purpose for a bipod. I submit that rapid semi-auto fire could also benefit. It was a ways off but my next "build" as the parlance is used here was to be a 22" heavy barrel for sustained fire perimeter defense. After considering Mr. Brown's post here and the inherent cook off hazard of closed bolt designs in sustained fire I really need to consider another weapon for this application. I'll just have to settle for a common calibre.

Thanks for your post.

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Old March 6th, 2011, 02:01 PM   #14
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Thanks for the link

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2336USMC View Post
Any one of the military operator's manuals for the M14 and M14A1/E2 would answer your question, I recommend FM 23-8.

Also, using the search function right here on the forum, plugging in "bipod" turns up gems like this thread from just a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/showthr...ighlight=bipod
Thanks for the link

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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:04 PM   #15
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let me take this further, since your worried about breaking the stock/bi-pod off when going prone rapidly. if your going prone in a hurry, the proper method is to break your fall with the butt of the rifle. therefore if your truly worried about breaking your stock, i'd be more worried about breaking it through the wrist, and not the forend.

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