M14 Forum

axeman_g · May 1st, 2011, 05:44 PM

Seagiant... where did you order yours from?

Gun Rider · May 1st, 2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superjc

Hi all, 1st post here at the forums. I've been researching this stock for CA. legality and here is a quote directly from the DOJ AW guide glossary of terms:

Pistol grip: Pistol Grip, conspicuously protruding -A grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand
(between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while
firing.

I would argue the Archangel grip does not "protrude conspicuously" but it does allow a grasp EXTREMELY NEAR THE WEB OF THE TRIGGER HAND:

(screenshot pulled from

HERE

I am also not sure if rear stock plate that is adjustable by maybe 3 inches constitutes a "folding or telescoping stock". I doubt even a SOCOM 16 could be shortened below the 30" overall length requirement.
I believe this is not as black-or-white as some have suggested, and my research led me to this forum, looks like a great place!

The shooter is specifically holding high to make it look compliant. It IS black and white because that stock ALLOWS (whether you choke up on it or not) the pistol grip grasp.

This is a legal rifle configuration:

See how HIGH the grip is? You cannot grasp it illegally. And BTW the people at Promag TOLD me their stock was not "compliant with CA law.

seagiant · May 1st, 2011, 08:11 PM

Hi,
Well... I ordered from Ammo supply that does not have all that great a rep around here,but I made sure the girl knew which one I wanted and it says M1A on the e-mail invoice! They maybe slow and screw the pooch now and then but I beleive it will be here eventually. You might want to keep you're eye on the Canadian Gun Nutz sight. They are getting in some up there and those guys have the cheap Norincos M305's that our goverment in their infinite wisdom won't allow to be imported in to the U.S

Oh yea the price for the stock was $198!!! I couldn't help myself!

superjc · May 1st, 2011, 09:44 PM

I emailed that youtube video over to the Ca. DOJ firearms division to get an opinion, we'll see what they advise. The extra comfort and possible accuracy not worth a possible felony. Either way, I love the traditional wood stock setups I have.

***ETA I'd love a JAE, if I ever get to fondle one and like it enough I'll probably buy one. That metal should last eternity; synthetic would be prone to wear by enough recoil over enough time, depending on how tough it really is.

JD Russell · May 3rd, 2011, 06:53 AM

I'm buying a ProMag stock!! - I got to briefly look one over & i was impressed - Looks to be a high quality, sturdy built stock - I've always wanted a modern, high-tec stock for 1 of my M14s but i just couldn't justify the EXTREMELY high price that a JAE commands - This ProMag stock is just what the doctor ordered for overworked & underpaid "Blue collars" like myself!

skyfixer · May 3rd, 2011, 08:56 AM

Hahaha. All guns and stocks have some commonality. So we can say that someone copied someone. It's all subjective. I am happy with my ProMag. :)

skyfixer · May 3rd, 2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Rider

Corrected your quote
:)

All guns and stocks have common features. So who copied who? Hahaha. It's all subjective. I am happy with ProMag.

Daves762 · May 3rd, 2011, 10:38 AM

Competition is good as it drives the prices down. If promag sells this piece for 300 and JAE is near 800 with any useable options then thats good for me as I feel the JAE is stupidly expensive. SO if some of their business is drawn to the Pro-Mag stock and they lower the price to compete then a guy like me who wants one but can't afford it wins!!

free enterprise keeps the competition honest and the profit margins reasonable. Monopolys are never good for the consumer.

Patents are a matter of lawyers and business owners. If I can buy the one without the space technology cause it suits me needs about 80% at half the cost, then I'm good with that....

seagiant · May 3rd, 2011, 12:37 PM

What he said!!!

parashooter · May 3rd, 2011, 01:01 PM

I second that!!!

The Bear · May 3rd, 2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seagiant

Hi,
Well... I ordered from Ammo supply that does not have all that great a rep around here,but I made sure the girl knew which one I wanted and it says M1A on the e-mail invoice! They maybe slow and screw the pooch now and then but I beleive it will be here eventually. You might want to keep you're eye on the Canadian Gun Nutz sight. They are getting in some up there and those guys have the cheap Norincos M305's that our goverment in their infinite wisdom won't allow to be imported in to the U.S

Oh yea the price for the stock was $198!!! I couldn't help myself!

Wow, $198.00.
That a killer price.
Looks like I may be on the road to buying this stock.
Just waiting on a couple reviews.

superjc · May 3rd, 2011, 05:38 PM

Is it a pistol grip that "protrudes conspicuously" Isn't that the qualifier for the grip test ? Like Bill Clinton said, it depends on what the meaning of "protrude" is...

The only thing keeping me from selling one of my M1A's to buy a JAE is I can't decide which one to keep.... 18" or 22" barrel... Still no email reply from Ca. D.O.J. - maybe I should call that agent someone mentioned in this thread earlier.

Gun Rider · May 3rd, 2011, 09:25 PM

DOJ:" Pistol Grip, conspicuously protruding -A grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand
(between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while
firing."

It's not the protruding (that was a DOJ hack trying to describe a PG) it's the being able to wrap your hand around the grip and have the web of the hand below the top of the trigger that makes it a PG. JAE is a rifle stock, with the grip profile of a regular sporting rifle on purpose -- to be California compliant.

And BTW, any of these price comparisons between the PM and JAE are ridiculous -- if the JAE was a just a plastic stock without five years of development of precision machined internals, yes, it would be expensive compared to the Pro-Mag --

but that's like comparing a full blown H-S bolt action precision stock at $515 to a plastic Choate M700 stock which costs $219. Yes, they both go on a Remington 700, but the one that (gasp! Choke!) costs twice as much has an internal aluminum bedding block, more rigid stock material, etc. Get it?

You're paying for the things that make the stock more expensive -- their stock is more advanced, machined, sturdier, etc., so it will of course cost more that a simple molded stock. If you compare the price differential to that H-S vs. Choate example, you'd see we're talking about oranges and HD Tvs. If you want a sub 300 dollar stock that looks cool, get the Promag. I don't have my JAE because it looks cool. I have it because it improves the performance of my rifle.

NoExpert · May 3rd, 2011, 10:01 PM

Gun Rider, trying to explain it is futile. Most people looking at these don't know or care about R&D or anything like that. They see a stock "like" the JAE and it costs a fraction of the price. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

I doubt this will hurt JAE's business in any way. I know JAE makes a great product and has customer service like no other. People with the coin are still going to buy a JAE. However, people without the coin have an option now.

Don't let it get to you.

seagiant · May 4th, 2011, 06:24 AM

Hi,
How about this,if you took both of these stocks using the same rifle and set up and shot them both at 100,200 and 600 meters, I can't help but imagine if there would be some red faces at the out come! I have never seen either one of these stocks but can't help but wonder...... Might be interesting???