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Big Red Birch Stock Fit

This is a discussion on Big Red Birch Stock Fit within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Well, got me a big red birch. Used Easy Off to strip. Washed, dried, and lubed (Tung Oil) over a period of a moth. Sanding ...


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Old December 5th, 2009, 04:14 PM   #1
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Big Red Birch Stock Fit

Well, got me a big red birch. Used Easy Off to strip. Washed, dried, and lubed (Tung Oil) over a period of a moth. Sanding with Steel Wool in between coats. Finally got to look the way I wanted. Took my SA and fit it in the stock. Imagine my suprise, back of the reciever was 1 to 2 mm of the wood. Now what?

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Old December 5th, 2009, 07:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilberg2 View Post
...Took my SA and fit it in the stock. Imagine my suprise, back of the reciever was 1 to 2 mm off the wood...
Am I correct that this is after trigger guard lockup?

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Old December 5th, 2009, 09:40 PM   #3
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????

Please explain, what has 1 to 2mm of wood?

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Old December 5th, 2009, 09:51 PM   #4
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stock for m1a

I have a scout squad, and have a stock that would fit my national match tightly, but has the same gap at the back of my receiver too. What kind of m1a do you have?

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Old December 5th, 2009, 11:03 PM   #5
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Gap back of reciever to stock

I have a standard SA. My walnut stock fits just fine. After my trigger locks into place, back of my reciever (metal) does not touch the stock (wood). There is about a 1mm gap that you can see through from one side to another.


Last edited by zilberg2; December 5th, 2009 at 11:25 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2009, 11:26 PM   #6
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My understanding is that this is not uncommon for SAI rifles/receivers in USGI stocks. It has to do with SAI's inability/lack of desire to maintain dimensions.

Maybe it's time to glass your rifle into that stock, and build up the area under the receiver heel.

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Old December 6th, 2009, 11:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilberg2 View Post
I have a standard SA. My walnut stock fits just fine. After my trigger locks into place, back of my reciever (metal) does not touch the stock (wood). There is about a 1mm gap that you can see through from one side to another...
The space between the heel of the receiver and stock under it shouldn't be there. When it takes some effort to close the trigger guard (yours must be awfully easy to close), you're pulling the heel down on the stock in the back and pulling the barrel up against the stock ferrule in front via the front band lip to provide the tension which stabilizes and centers the barrel.

Try putting some shims, maybe card stock, on top of the stock from forward of the bolt catch to where top sections of the stock drop off on the right side (put the shims on both sides) and see if that changes anything.

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Old December 6th, 2009, 02:26 PM   #8
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I have a SAI NM and their is no gap when in the Bedded Walnut stock, but i have the same gap that you have when I put the rifle in My USGI Synthetic. It is just like others have mentioned has to do with SAI receiver deminsions. I have not had any real issues with the rifle or it's accuracy that I can atribute to this gap in the stock. I really wouldn't give it too much concern, but if it really bothers you send the rifle off to be bedded by one of the pros. I know it sucks.

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Old December 7th, 2009, 12:52 PM   #9
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Your problem actually makes me feel better. I recently bought a walnut stock in "Big Red" dimensions and saw the same thing when I put my SAI Scout receiver into the stock. Actually, my gap was bigger. Oddly, the trigger group lockup did not seem especially loose.

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Old December 16th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #10
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One more thing

Why do they call it Big Red Birch, when my walnut stock from SA is more thicker in most places?


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Old December 19th, 2009, 06:32 AM   #11
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Okay, time to clear some things up here...

There are two kinds of gaps regarding the heel/stock relationship. One is good, one is bad....

The good gap:
Ona properly fitted/bedded stock, the actual heel of the receiver should rest firmly on the stock going froward about an inch on both sides. The area just forward of the heel and just behind the receiver legs should have a slight gap. Just enough to see daylight.

The bad gap:
Some earlier SA receivers had some extra metal on the right side of the receiver where the stock rests. It was a step-down that was machined into the recever during it's manufacturing process. We don't know why SA did it that way, they just did. They custom fit their own stocks before they shipped them from the factory.

Receivers with this additional metal will not normally allow another stock to be swapped without custom fitting. In some cases, the step prohibited the heel from touching the stock entirely, leaving a 1 to 2mm gap. Trigger guard lockup is unusually tight and in some cases, people can't lock their trigger guards at all. When this happens, the stock needs to be relieved to allow the heel to rest on the stock, or the stock just flat out needs to be bedded.

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Old December 19th, 2009, 06:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilberg2 View Post
Why do they call it Big Red Birch, when my walnut stock from SA is more thicker in most places?
A Big Red is fatter than a GI stock in the grip and forearm area. A Big Red is a stock that was made for the military and was in use by the government at some time.

Boyd's and a couple of other stock makers had made even thicker stocks than the GI Big Reds. I have a Big Red Birch but had a chance to handle another member's SAI loaded and his stock was considerably thicker than mine. It's a commercial vs GI comparison.

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Old December 19th, 2009, 06:50 AM   #13
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The "Big Red" Birch stocks are IMO some of the best wooden GI stocks - I have several & have never had a problem with rec fit on my Polys or LRBs - It's best to test fit a GI stock to your rifle before you buy it, if you can't & buy the stock anyway then before you put hours of labor into refinishing test fit it to your rifle, if it's loose or has little or no band tension sell it as is

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Old December 19th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #14
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Big Red

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before you put hours of labor into refinishing test fit it to your rifle, if it's loose or has little or no band tension sell it as is
Some of us are not as bright. But, on a positive note, the time I spent working on my Burch, will benefit me on the Walnut. I made quite a few mistakes. But now I know how to avoid them and fix them. Lets hear it for re-inventing the wheel. Some how it makes you feel like you came up with the Idea by your self.

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 08:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyben View Post

The good gap:
Ona properly fitted/bedded stock, the actual heel of the receiver should rest firmly on the stock going froward about an inch on both sides. The area just forward of the heel and just behind the receiver legs should have a slight gap. Just enough to see daylight.

.
This is the basic way the M1 Garand receiver heel must fit and the M14 receiver heel may fit. The reason for this is the receiver actually bends a very little ahead of the heel and causes a good tight fit on top. (On the M1 Garand receiver, this also stops a weird kind of 7th round stoppage. They identified that early in WWII.)

The difference is that an M14 receiver may be fully bedded under the whole receiver heel. (Don't do that with a Garand or you may be setting it up for that weird stoppage noted above.)

However, it is not as easy as just laying epoxy bedding under the receiver heel, tightening the trigger guard down and then cleaning up any epoxy that squooshed out from under the heel of the receiver. If you do it that way, it will fill up the gap, but there won't be any pressure on the receiver heel when the triggerguard is locked down.

Instead, the correct way to do it is to roughen the wood under the receiver heel and do not go beyond the edge of the receiver all the way around the heel. Stay back inside maybe 1/16" from the outer edge of the receiver heel so you don't have roughened wood that sticks out from the receiver. You have to fill the whole receiver heel with modeling clay and cut it even with the bottom of the receiver heel. Make sure there is no clay on the bedding surface of the receiver heel. Then mold release the receiver heel and going forward to and including down the receiver legs and about 1/2" forward of the rear of the receiver legs. This to ensure any glass that squooshes forward won't glue the receiver to the stock.

Now, here's the secret. Turn the receiver upside down and lay it on your bench. Then carefully position and lay the stock down in position. Push the stock down by putting hand pressure under the FORWARD part of the receiver only - until the stock is all the way down. DO NOT USE THE TRIGGER MECHANISM TO HOLD IT IN PLACE............. DO NOT USE THE TRIGGER MECHANISM AT ALL. Instead, wrap strong tape or even tie clothes line around the forward part of the receiver and the stock. You grip the stock around the area of the receiver legs while doing this and wrap the tape or rope around the receiver and stock ahead of that. Then use Q Tips to clean up any epoxy bedding that squooshes out from the receiver. If you clean up carefully, it will be extremely hard to notice you put epoxy bedding under the heel after it hardens and the receiver is in place. Many people won't notice it unless you tell them you did it and it does not detract from the appearance of a wood stock.

Now, why is this "secret" so important? When we do it this way, the bedding under the receiver heel will be on the same plane as the bedding under the front portion of the receiver. That basically means the whole top surface will be "in agreement" or equal balance when you tighten the triggerguard down. That also means the triggerguard will tighten both the front part of the receiver and the receiver heel down together on a more or less equal pressure.

If you had used the triggerguard to lock down the receiver while bedding, the bedding on the receiver heel will only lightly contact the receiver when it is locked down. There won't be any tension under the receiver heel.

After the bedding hardens, clean up the open inside section of the stock using files, dremel tool cutters, etc. to the same shape as a G.I. stock. That's the easiest way to do it. Those of us who do glass bedding will clean them up a little differently, but for the average person, it is probably better to use another G.I. stock as a guide and clean it up like that.

Now, you may or may not have enough tension when you lock the trigger guard down in place. If you have enough, you are done. If there was good tension before you bedded the receiver heel, there will still be good tension to lock the trigger guard down in place. If there wasn't good tension, now you can epoxy bed the trigger mechanism in place and when finished, it will pull the whole receiver bedding surface down in a balanced fashion.

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