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This is a discussion on scouting within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I have kept a lid on this thought for several years. I think that I bear no prejudice toward any shooter's choice of paper punchng ...


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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:31 AM   #1
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scouting

I have kept a lid on this thought for several years.
I think that I bear no prejudice toward any shooter's choice of paper punchng tools, but I just don't understand the reason for a forward mounted scope on an M1A. Jeff Cooper mounted the scope forward to permit use of stripper clips for recharging the box magazine on bolt action rifles. With a removable magazine, the scope can be moved closer to the eye, over the receiver, yielding a better sight picture and permitting use of higher power optics.

Barrel scope mounts and receiver scope mounts both have occasional problems which can be readily solved.

If you really need or want a Scout rifle, then go for it. My Scout is a Mexican Mauser in 35 Whelen!

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Last edited by shooter86314; March 18th, 2017 at 08:37 AM. Reason: add mauser
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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:45 AM   #2
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True, and the scout concept applied to M14's places a lot more weight on front heavy, compared to bolt action, rifles. For short/medium ranges I much prefer a bush rifle in the M14 platform with low power scopes, red dots or reflex sights. But they look cool
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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:54 AM   #3
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Good point

Gonna dump my Scout and go back to my practical gun
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Old March 18th, 2017, 07:02 AM   #4
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Once again, it is a poor execution of a good idea. The SAI factory barrel mount is too short and too high. The Ultimak version is much better.

Many shooters also ruin the concept by using too much scope. With a 2-3x small scope in a low mount, it is light and fast.

Many shooters also expect too much accuracy. The concept was intended to hit a full size target while on the move. It wasn't intended to be match grade.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 08:27 AM   #5
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The Leupold fixed scout scope on this is pretty darn light. With low mounts on an M14.CA rail there is no riser needed for me. I'd love to have just irons but at 56, the clarity of the scope allows for some better target recognition. It's currently in a Carbon Fiber stock with a two point Rhodesian sling. It's my Walter Mitty/Scout build. The OP's comments are valid but I think the low power scope adds some clarity to the target in the 100-200 yard range giving a quick shot capability. Looped up in prone it should be at least as good as Irons out to longer ranges. With no field experience and only limited firing of this rifle I have to defer to those with more time in the field. Time will tell if this configuration is handy or too much of a compromise.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 08:46 AM   #6
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^^^ That's the way it should be done.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 10:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beepermac View Post
The Leupold fixed scout scope on this is pretty darn light. With low mounts on an M14.CA rail there is no riser needed for me. I'd love to have just irons but at 56, the clarity of the scope allows for some better target recognition. It's currently in a Carbon Fiber stock with a two point Rhodesian sling. It's my Walter Mitty/Scout build. The OP's comments are valid but I think the low power scope adds some clarity to the target in the 100-200 yard range giving a quick shot capability. Looped up in prone it should be at least as good as Irons out to longer ranges. With no field experience and only limited firing of this rifle I have to defer to those with more time in the field. Time will tell if this configuration is handy or too much of a compromise.
My question about something like this is eye relief. Is a specialized optic required or is a diminished field of view something that must be put up with in this configuration?

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Old March 18th, 2017, 10:27 AM   #8
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There are other reasons also. With a large scope directly in front of the eye, traditional mounted, the scope view takes up a very large portion of your field of view. With a small scout scope, 2-3x power, mounted well forward, the scope view is fairly small compared to the world. This gives a much larger field of view around the scope, and with both eyes open, very good situational awareness of what's going on around you, ability to track moving targets, and take very fast snap shots.

On a true bolt action scout with a short light barrel, light stock, and light scout scope mounted forward, the rifle will usually balance right at the front receiver ring making it easy to carry one handed without grabbing the scope tube. On an M14, maybe not so much.

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Originally Posted by NorthernRebel27 View Post
My question about something like this is eye relief. Is a specialized optic required or is a diminished field of view something that must be put up with in this configuration?
Yes, several manufacturers make scopes specifically for scout mounting. A traditional scope will have eye relief of 3-4" or so, and must be mounted all the way back or it will just black out. Scout scopes have more like 10-14 inches of eye relief for forward mounting. Some pistol scopes can also be used in the scout location with full field of view.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 05:36 PM   #9
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The scout style rifle is a fighting set up you can hunt with .It isn't a precision rifle or the perfect long range hunter but it can perform with a higher degree of precision than a rifle with irons alone but it is mainly a self defense or fighting set up that is very adaptable to close and medium range hunting more so than a specialized hunting rifle can perform as a self defense rifle .

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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:47 PM   #10
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Beepermac hit the nail on the head. When the eyes go and even a peep doesn't work well, then you go to a scout. If I could see the sights well at 71, I'd take the scope off and the mount and enjoy the irons. You young bucks will learn as time passes, enjoy your good sight while it lasts.

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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:35 AM   #11
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Unless you're using the Scout setup as intended (a general purpose rifle and not precision/DMR), then the scout-style setup is useless. I put a 2-7x scout scope on my Socom because I wasnt looking for precision or to take the .308 to it's limits. I also really enjoy using the irons so I have the scope on QD rings (I also occasionally throw a Burris fastfire on the scout rail) and I'd rather keep the option of loading from stripper clips. I do agree that people over-do it with the glass and invest too much into a setup that isnt ideal if youre looking for 1MOA over 500M. That being said, its whatever works for the shooter, as long as they realize what the weapon will and wont do.

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Old March 21st, 2017, 08:20 PM   #12
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"I just don't understand the reason"

It is a simple, enjoyable configuration. A scout set up with USGI wood & sling, Ultimak and Leupold is just fun.

It's also potentially attractive if one is forced to play the non-free-state meta-game.

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Old March 23rd, 2017, 05:14 AM   #13
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A lot has to do with faster action shooting, and the ability to keep both eyes open while shooting. I'm using a Burris 3-12 handgun scope with a BDC reticle though the eye relief is what I initially thought it still works very well for me.
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Old March 23rd, 2017, 05:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beepermac View Post
The Leupold fixed scout scope on this is pretty darn light. With low mounts on an M14.CA rail there is no riser needed for me. I'd love to have just irons but at 56, the clarity of the scope allows for some better target recognition. It's currently in a Carbon Fiber stock with a two point Rhodesian sling. It's my Walter Mitty/Scout build. The OP's comments are valid but I think the low power scope adds some clarity to the target in the 100-200 yard range giving a quick shot capability. Looped up in prone it should be at least as good as Irons out to longer ranges. With no field experience and only limited firing of this rifle I have to defer to those with more time in the field. Time will tell if this configuration is handy or too much of a compromise.
This is what I have on my Scout although I have Leupold's quick release rings attached to the original SAI rail. It's a nice set up. Relatively light and quick on target. I'm not going to shoot clover leafs with it at 600 yards but I didn't get it for that.

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