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Feeding/chambering observation

This is a discussion on Feeding/chambering observation within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Greetings, Brand-new M1A Scout owner posting for the first time. Good to be here. Decades ago I served in the Austrian army, where we used ...


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Old March 12th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #1
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Feeding/chambering observation

Greetings,
Brand-new M1A Scout owner posting for the first time. Good to be here. Decades ago I served in the Austrian army, where we used the STG77, the civilian version of which is known as AUG1 over here. I actually prefer 30cal rifles over the 5.56, hence this new-to-me rifle.
I could use some education on it. Recently I shot the first 10 rounds and noticed something interesting. The tips of the bullets are striking the face of the chamber, just before sliding into the chamber. This happens from both sides of the mag, and I tried a couple different (Springfield) mags with no difference. There were no feeding problems on all 10. I chambered 3 rounds and measured length before and after. One was shorter by ~0.003, the other 2 ended up longer by ~0.002. Tips of the HP bullets were slightly deformed.
Bullets are Sierra MK 168 gr
OCL is 2.795 0.005
Is this to be expected/normal, or should I hold off with any further shooting until it is resolved?
Thanks,
Fred
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File Type: jpg chamber.jpg (1,016.0 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg bullet tips.jpg (585.0 KB, 54 views)

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Old March 12th, 2017, 04:13 PM   #2
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Fred,

Yes, I've seen this many times.

In your chamber picture, do you notice the two "cut outs" (feed ramps) at the 5 and 7 O'Clock position on the barrel chamber face and the two larger ones just under the barrel chamber face? That is what has been incorporated into the barrel chamber face and barrel edge to aid the tip of the bullet to ease into the chamber and not cause "much damage" to the cartridge when the bolt pushes the cartridge into battery. Your cartridges are striking directly onto the chamber face between the four feed ramps.

I have seen cartridges damaged like yours (your bullet is excessively damaged) and it's usually a magazine either sitting too high or too low when locked into position for firing. The other possibility is that the magazine well in the rifle and assorted assembly have some out of tolerance parts problems as assembled (this is more rare of a problem than a bad magazine).

I think you have a magazine problem. I would start with using USGI magazines and see if that clears the issue up, first. You may try some aftermarket mags too.

Very respectfully,
Buck
Master Gunner
US Army (Ret.)

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Old March 12th, 2017, 04:27 PM   #3
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He is using SAI mags which are checkmate which are current usgi.

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Old March 12th, 2017, 04:34 PM   #4
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Well,

actually he said "(Springfield) mags" and he probably meant what you said, however there are those silly 5 and 10rd Springfield issued mags that aren't USGI that he may have used.

Let's let him clear that up and give more details.

V/R
Buck

*** Just noticed he is in Colorado, and I think they have a 15rd mg size limit, and he talks about shooting 10rds a couple times, so he may have one of those silly 5 or 10rd SA mags. Colorado is a 15rd mag limit, right?


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Old March 12th, 2017, 04:35 PM   #5
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Agreed

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Old March 12th, 2017, 04:36 PM   #6
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I notice some rough machining at bottom of chamber entrance. I looked at 3 of my 4 rifles and see nothing like that on them. Pretty obvious by the damage and copper left on that rough area that it is at least partially responsible for it.

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Old March 12th, 2017, 04:58 PM   #7
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Very common for this to happen. The 14 was designed to fire FMJ bullets. Using soft nose or hollow points will often do the kind of damage as shown in your pictures.

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Old March 12th, 2017, 06:36 PM   #8
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The first mag I used was 10 round that came with the rifle. I ordered a 20 round mag, but yes, as you pointed out, Buckxo01, we do have a silly 15 round limit. So that's what I got instead.
Anyway, what brand/source of mags do you all recommend?
I will also try FMJ bullets and perhaps some factory ammo, just to be sure if the manufacturer needs to get involved.
Thank you for the information,
Fred

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Old March 12th, 2017, 07:34 PM   #9
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Try different bullets.

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Old March 12th, 2017, 08:19 PM   #10
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I think if you can order and someone will ship to you some properly blocked 20rd USGI M14 mags or you can also try the the keepshooting.com 20rd T-53 knock offs that are properly blocked to meet your State requirements you'll be ok. Send that mag back to SA and they should replace it for free.

I've seen this happen with M16/M4 mags and M110 SASS mags too many times and it be the mag hole cut incorrectly or wear and cartridges miss the feed ramps and hit the chamber face. Bad example because the mag does not lock the same as your Scout, however I honestly believe the issue with your weapon is because of the mags you have lock in at an incorrect height and angle. I've shot HP out of my 6 different M1A's without issue and I've had issues just as you've had with ball and it's always been the mag causing the problem with either bent feed lips or incorrect lockup height and angle.

Personally, I don't believe it is an ammunition issue.

V/R
Buck

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Old March 12th, 2017, 08:36 PM   #11
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Fred,

While the damage to the bullet noses looks bad, ready this article for a little calibration in terms of accuracy loss potential:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-...e-box-o-truth/

Thanks from Dougboffl and Rich D
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Old March 13th, 2017, 05:19 AM   #12
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That article was a GREAT read!

Now, everyone pull out your firearms manual that came with it, and read the note that says "DON'T FIRE DAMAGED AMMUNITION"

Notice he didn't damage the cannelure, shoulder or bearing surface of the bullet, just the base, heel, ogive and tips. Had he damaged the first three or not seated them properly when he hand loaded the ammunition, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have fired them. I'm curious if he checked the chamber and bore between firing rounds.

For those of you that value your health, own $1K+ M1A and want to fire damaged ammunition from your weapon, the instructions on how to fire certain types of damaged ammunition are provided in the article - more power to you. For me, until SHTF, I'm staying in a Check Fire status with damaged ammunition.

That article was a GREAT read!

V/R
Buck

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Old March 13th, 2017, 11:12 AM   #13
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If this rifle was bought new I would call Springfield Armory and complain. It should not be deforming the bullet tips when feeding. SA may correct it free of charge.

Thanks from Rich D
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Old March 13th, 2017, 12:48 PM   #14
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An out of spec op-rod spring guide can cause feeding issues. Remember, the back of the spring guide is the front catch for the magazine. If this is too low, it can create feeding issues.

Thanks from conditionone
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Old March 13th, 2017, 04:38 PM   #15
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Welcome to the forum , check and make sure your magazine isnt gobbed up inside with shipping grease ,and make sure you seat cartridges all the way firmly against rear of mag. when loading oh yea make sure you don't ride the bolt when chambering let the operating spring do the work .probabaly not any of these in your situation but they all have happened to me.


Last edited by M14wannabe; March 13th, 2017 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Spelling
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