SOCOM CQB accuracy? - Page 2 - M14 Forum

M14 Forum


SOCOM CQB accuracy?

This is a discussion on SOCOM CQB accuracy? within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Senor Chisme Rifle is to be mated to a lighted-reticle scope using an airborne mount as a dedicated hog gun. Originally Posted ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Modern M14

15Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old February 10th, 2017, 08:51 AM   #16
Lifer
 
Buelligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Chisme View Post
Rifle is to be mated to a lighted-reticle scope using an airborne mount as a dedicated hog gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Chisme View Post
And yes, I still have the forward scope mount.
I assume you mean a receiver mounted Sadlak scope mount by "airborne mount." If you don't plan on using the forward mount, you're better off removing it. Being clamped to the barrel can make it impede consistent barrel harmonics and it's just dead weight unless it's doing something for you.

I'm not familiar with the CQB M1A, but it looks like it uses the same trigger as the conventional stock M1As. This trigger was designed for a pull from a traditional stock; a pistol grip stock changes the relationship of your finger to this trigger's range of motion. There is an adjustable weight trigger available specifically for M1As that have pistol grips from a forum member who goes by the moniker "ShootingSight." The trigger is re-angled for the pull from a pistol grip. The reports on these triggers have been very good. It's something you might want to research before you get a trigger job done.

Your rifle is called a CQB, but the M14 was not originally designed for close quarters battle, it was designed to be a long range battle rifle. The barrel on the SOCOM is shorter, the iron sights are revised, and the CQB stock has more features, but it's still the same rifle inside and it can benefit from the same procedures all M1As benefit from. There is no reason you should not pursue greater accuracy if you want it. The CQB will never be as accurate as a well prepared NM rifle, but you can make it the most accurate SOCOM it can be.

Check out this recent forum member's experience with his SOCOM 16...

"Haters will say it's photoshopped"


Last edited by Buelligan; February 10th, 2017 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Your and you're... both should be changed to "yer."
Buelligan is offline  
Remove Ads
Old February 10th, 2017, 09:05 AM   #17
Lifer
 
Buelligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,551
Also, it sounds like you were using the ghost ring rear aperture/fat front post sights for your initial groupings. These sights were designed for CQB and they're not the best sights to confirm 100yd groups with. Plus, I inspected a new SOCOM recently and was aghast at how wobbly the rear sight was in the sight base. If this is the case with your rifle, there is some room for improvement here.

Buelligan is offline  
Old February 10th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 4
Buelligan: Yes it is a Sadlak airborne mount and all groups were made using a Leupold 6.5-20x Long Range scope set at 20x. Haven't used the irons and don't plan to.

Charlie98: When I said max load, that was max load for me. The Sierra manual says max load with IMR 4064 is 42.8 grains for their 180gr. RN. I have reduced it 2 grains to compensate for the thicker mil surp brass. So my max load is 40.8 grains of IMR 4064 using that bullet.

Senor Chisme is offline  
 
Old February 10th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #19
Rifleman
 
gunsbeerbacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 45
Hey Senor, Ill share a few cheap tweaks that I learned on this forum for my Socom16. FYI my socom loves 147gr PMC bronze which Ive been picking up from targetsports and bulkammo.com for abt $300 for a 500rd case. It seems to be a consensus with other Socom owners that 145gr-155gr get good results and handloads around these grain weights work even better.
Out of the box my rifle was 2.5 MOA which I was perfectly happy with since I bought it to be my general purpose scout rifle good out to 300yds. I figured if I could make it good out to 500 without changing much or spending serious bucks, Id be even happier.

Your Socom should be perfectly fine as-is for 200yd hogs , and if you intend to use the irons primarily, I would either swap them out for NM irons & ditch the scout rail OR utilize the scout rail with a red dot or low-mag optic. Remember that with a 16 inch barrel, youre using irons with a shorter sight plane and losing some FPS at the muzzle which will affect the round more at greater ranges, I think this actually forced me to be a steadier shooter.

Now as for accurizing... Is it possible to make the Socom16 sub-MOA? Sure it is, but accomplishing it would be going down a $1,000+ road to drop it into a Sage EBR or bedding a MacMillan, doing a trigger job, and shooting nothing but match-ammo. Youd eventually spend more than the rifle is worth to take it down 1MOA from what youre getting with your best handloads and still wouldnt be able to push the .308 out to its limits because of the shorter barrel length. Really a waste of money IMO because if youre spending the money to do sub-MOA groups at a few hundred yards, youre really spending the amount of money that guys spend to EBR/DMR a 22inch M1A and they have the benefit of making 1,000yd hits which you still wont be able to do with a Socom16. And theres really no reason you should end up with a $3000+ rifle to shoot hogs @200yds.

Anyway heres the Garage Mods I did to mine to tighten the groups up on the cheap...
1. Shimmed the gas cylinder ($15 from Fulton Armory and tonyben has a great youtube vid on the how-to)
2. Epoxied the ferrule to keep it in place on the front of the stock, then greased the ferrule to make sure the rifles contact point ends up in the same place every time.
3. Filed/sanded the fiberglass handguard so it doesnt make contact with the stock, receiver or OpRod. I also siliconed it to the front barrelband.
4. Dremeled a little around the inside of the stock near the ferrule to make sure the stock does not come in contact with the gas cylinder, which would have a negative impact on harmonics.
5. Also I have a Sadlak spring guide on the way ($40 from Brownells) along with a Chrome spring kit which from all the reviews seems like a worthwhile upgrade and may or may not take care of those random flyers while youre shooting. It sounds like it will definitely help in the consistency of the action. .

These few mods brought me from the 2.5MOA to 1.5MOA, my tightest group being 1.25 inches @100yds (mind you thats using bulk ammo & in my springfield synthetic stock with a 2-7x scout scope on my factory scout rail). My opinion on the springfield stocks: If it fits snug on the Socom, dont change it just yet. There are some loose-fitting lemons out there and there seems to be some better quality ones which may have something to do with manufacture date. Even the USGI fiberglass stocks that cost $150ish need some reinforcing and are designed for 3-5MOA, which is really a battle rifle standard.

Let us know how you make out doing some tweaks. I think with these and the right handloads, you could pull 1MOA @ 100yds. Its not so much that the M1A Socom isnt accurate at intermediate ranges, its that there are things affecting the barrel harmonics and consistency of the POI that need to be remedied. Since the design of the Socom is for close-range heavy-hitting, using the rifle as it was intended makes these little inconsistencies negligible. Only when pushing the rifle past its intended role does it require some upgrading and taking the marksmanship skills up a notch. What really cant be remedied however is the velocity loss due to the 16.25 inch barrel (which I believe is 150FPS @muzzle depending on the ammunition). This makes a decrease in the effective range of the 7.62x51 cartridge, and wind/gravity will affect it sooner than any other model M1A. Id be interested to hear some range reports on guys that EBRd their Socom and really tricked it out, I wonder what distance theyre able to get 1MOA out to with proper ammunition.

Definitely spend some time on this forum, it is a real compendium of M14 knowledge and is a great bunch of guys that will always point you in the right direction. Most of all, have fun with that Socom!

Thanks from OLDGUY55 and Wasted ammo

Last edited by gunsbeerbacon; February 10th, 2017 at 12:32 PM.
gunsbeerbacon is offline  
Old February 10th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #20
Rifleman
 
gunsbeerbacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 45
I just realized Buelligan linked my other thread and I didnt have to write all that hahahaha, Have fun brother!

Thanks from Buelligan
gunsbeerbacon is offline  
Old February 10th, 2017, 05:00 PM   #21
Old Salt
 
Douglas Haig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,756
"...For handloads I’ve used Hornady 155 A-Max, Hornady 165 BTSP Interlock, Sierra 165 Game King, Sierra 165 Pro Hunter, and Sierra 180 RN. For powder I’ve used H322, IMR 4895, IMR 3031, RL15, IMR 4350, and IMR 4064. All in all, 35 different loads. ..." .?

What was the mix? 5 different bullets and 6 different powders but only 35 development loads?


" Today I was able to get about 1¾“ with the 180 RN. It was max load and the very last load of the day. Have to load more and try them"

Great accuracy, was the powder and weight for this load? How many shots in that 1 3/4" group?


Last edited by Douglas Haig; February 10th, 2017 at 05:23 PM.
Douglas Haig is offline  
Old February 10th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 4
155 A-Max: RL-15 (43, 44, 44.5); IMR 4064 (42.5, 42.6, 42.8, 43)//165 Interlock BT: RL-15 (41.5, 42); IMR 4895 (40.9, 41.4); IMR 3031 (40.5, 40.6, 40.8, 41)//165 Game King: H322 (38.7, 39.2); IMR 4064 (43.4, 43.9); IMR 4895 (40.9, 41.4); IMR 3031 (39.7, 40.2)//165 Pro Hunter: IMR 3031 (40.6, 40.8, 41)//180 Pro Hunter RN: RL-15 (38.8, 39.3); IMR 3031 (36.5, 37); IMR 4895 (39, 39.5); IMR 4350 (45.2 –compressed); IMR 4064 (40.3, 40.8). All loads from the latest Hornady and Sierra loading manuals and adjusted for mil surp brass.

And yes, I am going to makesome more of that last load when I get some time. Lots of other stuff to do. Retirement is about the hardest job I’ve ever had.


3 rounds in that last group because that's all I had loaded. I had been at the loading bench for a while, it was late and I was getting tired.

Senor Chisme is offline  
Old February 10th, 2017, 07:43 PM   #23
Old Salt
 
JEFFJP_N_JJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California, USA?
Posts: 1,585
You are doing fine. Mine does 11/2" to 2" as well. But would use a powder rated for your rifle and a bullet rated for your game...
Load low and slow and use a good hunting bullet IMOP


Last edited by JEFFJP_N_JJ; February 10th, 2017 at 07:45 PM. Reason: more info
JEFFJP_N_JJ is offline  
Old March 7th, 2017, 04:21 PM   #24
Snappin In
 
Not an m1A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Chisme View Post
155 A-Max: RL-15 (43, 44, 44.5); IMR 4064 (42.5, 42.6, 42.8, 43)//165 Interlock BT: RL-15 (41.5, 42); IMR 4895 (40.9, 41.4); IMR 3031 (40.5, 40.6, 40.8, 41)//165 Game King: H322 (38.7, 39.2); IMR 4064 (43.4, 43.9); IMR 4895 (40.9, 41.4); IMR 3031 (39.7, 40.2)//165 Pro Hunter: IMR 3031 (40.6, 40.8, 41)//180 Pro Hunter RN: RL-15 (38.8, 39.3); IMR 3031 (36.5, 37); IMR 4895 (39, 39.5); IMR 4350 (45.2 –compressed); IMR 4064 (40.3, 40.8). All loads from the latest Hornady and Sierra loading manuals and adjusted for mil surp brass.

And yes, I am going to makesome more of that last load when I get some time. Lots of other stuff to do. Retirement is about the hardest job I’ve ever had.


3 rounds in that last group because that's all I had loaded. I had been at the loading bench for a while, it was late and I was getting tired.
Doesnt SAI recommend the AMAX for the SOCOM 16? I believe they recommend it on one of their web pages.

Not an m1A is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Modern M14

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Socom accuracy Nov2662harley Accuracy 14 December 19th, 2016 11:07 AM
Accuracy vs. Precision - another dead horse RAMMAC Ammunition 5 November 17th, 2014 05:39 PM
Distance accuracy Socom vs. Scout. pbriggs7 The M14 6 February 13th, 2008 09:31 AM
SOCOM 16 Accuracy Marc1911 The M14 3 January 8th, 2008 06:43 AM
SOCOM 16 data for CQB distances cmdr249 The M14 5 September 26th, 2005 11:46 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List