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New M25 range day

This is a discussion on New M25 range day within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I had a new M25 scout show up on 29 Dec 16, 18.5 inch med weight chrome lined barrel with a USGI M14E2 stabilizer sleeve ...


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Old January 1st, 2017, 12:48 PM   #1
Grunt
 
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New M25 range day

I had a new M25 scout show up on 29 Dec 16, 18.5 inch med weight chrome lined barrel with a USGI M14E2 stabilizer sleeve assembly, birch stock.

I have a 100 yard range here at home so Friday morning I start zeroing the rifle. I'm using optics with ARMS 22 rings.

For initial zero I used Wolf 147 grn. First three shot group was high, left about 1.25 MOA, I was very happy with this. Made corrections second string was at 9 o'clock same 1.25 next string was right on point of aim. Shot fourth string 2 rounds almost touching 1 round 3 inches left, I blamed myself and moved to the privi 165 grn soft tip ammunition I hunt with, group was 1moa for about 3 strings then opened up to around 4 inches. Long story short this happened with five different brands of ammo more often with the 165 and 168 grn ammunition. Had another issue with the 10 round mags that should be ok.

Gas cylinder/plug tight, muzzle brake tight, scope tight. Went inside picked up my other LRB M25, it sits in a JAE sock, removed scope from new rifle installed on this rifle, fired 40 rounds of various ammunition and all groups ranged from .5 MOA to 1.250 MOA depending on ammunition.

I took my flash suppressor alignment gauge checked the muzzle brake and it is slightly off center. After taking some measurements the gauge is .024 closer to the right side or 9:00 as you are looking at the muzzle. After doing the math the bullets will only have .022 clearance here with .070 on the opposite side. I have a spare USGI NM flash suppressor for my SAI I can install but want to check with the builder first so I don't void any warranty. Could this be the cause?

Only other thing is the hand guard is so loose it will actually rattle if you shake the rifle, I can take care of that and don't think that is the problem. Was going to install optics and try again but the weather has been terrible here.

Any suggestions before contacting the builder?

Thanks from Tommo
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Old January 1st, 2017, 01:58 PM   #2
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The M14E2 muzzle stabilizer was designed for a full auto "cone of fire". Birch USGI stocks were intended to shoot 5 moa or less. It sounds like they living up to their intended purpose.

If accuracy is your goal, I would use a NM style muzzle device and a well fitting commercial stock.

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Old January 1st, 2017, 02:10 PM   #3
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Stock

The stock is actually very tight. Even with the trigger group removed there isn't any movement. I do have 2 walnut NM and 1 fiberglass stock here I can try.

That muzzle brake is a repo from LRB, not an original slip on.

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Old January 6th, 2017, 07:00 PM   #4
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Is there a good amount of tension between the front band and the stock? How does it compare to your other LRB M25? Are you possibly gripping down on the hand guard and relieving some of that tension?

Also, if the muzzle device isn't concentric with the bore it can cause some random accuracy issues. I second KurtC in trying a NM flash hider.

Thanks from nf1e
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Old January 7th, 2017, 05:02 AM   #5
Grunt
 
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1. Are you possibly gripping down on the hand guard and relieving some of that tension?
No, all shooting was done on a bench with bags.

2. Is there a good amount of tension between the front band and the stock?
Yes, however there is the hand guard assembly.

3. Also, if the muzzle device isn't concentric with the bore it can cause some random
accuracy issues.
I agree, since the brake is off center, within .022 clearance on one side. I since
removed cleaned and retightened castle nut and set screw, much closer
to center now.

4. Hard to compare yet since other LRB is in JAE stock. Once I'm done I will make a
comparison.

I have sent a message to builder about the handquard assembly, will try shooting again when weather clears up. Can anyone tell me if the med weight criterion barrels are cut down, rethreaded and resplined or are they made at the 18.5 length?

Thanks from M1AMODS
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Old January 7th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegokid View Post
1. Are you possibly gripping down on the hand guard and relieving some of that tension?
No, all shooting was done on a bench with bags.

2. Is there a good amount of tension between the front band and the stock?
Yes, however there is the hand guard assembly.

3. Also, if the muzzle device isn't concentric with the bore it can cause some random
accuracy issues.
I agree, since the brake is off center, within .022 clearance on one side. I since
removed cleaned and retightened castle nut and set screw, much closer
to center now.

4. Hard to compare yet since other LRB is in JAE stock. Once I'm done I will make a
comparison.

I have sent a message to builder about the handquard assembly, will try shooting again when weather clears up. Can anyone tell me if the med weight criterion barrels are cut down, rethreaded and resplined or are they made at the 18.5 length?
If the barrel diameter behind the splines is thinner than where the splines are, then there is no way it could have been cut down.

The handguards on actual M14's didn't rattle because they were pretty much in constant contact with the stock. Civilian rifles tend to have a gap along the edges. Put a dab of high-temp RTV silicone on the underside of the handguard, where the clip is. Let it harden a bit and snap the handguard back in place.

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Old January 7th, 2017, 08:00 AM   #7
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I'm gonna say it.............Please take what I say with a grain of salt..........You spend all that money on a really nice rifle, then you shoot cheap ammo in it. Try it with a better grade of ammo, and then let us know how she does. Just my .02. I use good stuff to zero, and save the cheap stuff for plinking.

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Old January 8th, 2017, 04:34 AM   #8
Grunt
 
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I like salt, adds flavor. I use cheap stuff to get me on paper. Other three brands of ammo were Hornady 168 Match, 168 sierra BTHP match bullet handholds with LC cases 4895 powder with winchester large rifle primers, and winchester white box 308. All the ammo wasn't cheap stuff.

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Old February 5th, 2017, 03:59 PM   #9
Grunt
 
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Second time with new M25

I finally had time to try the new M25 scout again. I removed the muzzle brake replaced it with a NM flash hider. I also dropped it into the fiberglass stock my first M25 came with. I also moved to 50 yards.

I shot six different loads. Worst was the ZQ1 with 2.5 MOA, best two were both 1.25 MOA. They were shot with 175 SMK with 40..5 grains 4064 in LC Match cases, the other was the plain old privi 165 SP. Hornady, Remington and south african finished in that order. Keep in mind this was 50 yards.

Still not happy with this rifle.

Hope to run the same cycle with my SAI scout later this week for a comparison.

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Old February 5th, 2017, 04:58 PM   #10
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When you say MOA at 50 yards do you mean inches or MOA which would be half at 50 yds.

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Old February 6th, 2017, 05:07 AM   #11
Grunt
 
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My mistake, the measurements listed in the previous post are in inches. MOA would be double that.

If that was MOA I would be happy.

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Old June 4th, 2017, 06:06 AM   #12
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I bedded the M25 and another rifle I'm working on. Due to weather I haven't had time to try the rifle with the bedding job. I used a old NM walnut stock I had instead of the stock it came in. Hope it helps.

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