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Keyholing while suppressed

This is a discussion on Keyholing while suppressed within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Snyper762 Thanks for that link. I'm ordering one too. Not every baffle strike is detrimental to the suppressor. I bet it's knicking ...


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Old October 10th, 2016, 12:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyper762 View Post
Thanks for that link. I'm ordering one too. Not every baffle strike is detrimental to the suppressor. I bet it's knicking the edge as its clearing the can by less than a hair.
It's probably disrupting the airflow on one side of the projo.

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Old October 10th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #17
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Are you using a 5/8 X24" adapter?

If so, who's are you using?

Irrespective of who's 5/8X24 adapter your using (if you're using one at all) did you "square" your muzzle face before installing it?

This one had the same problem (I use a Delta P adapter that indexes on the muzzle face). I had a local gunsmith true up the muzzle face and it was good to go.





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Last edited by ATCDoktor; October 10th, 2016 at 04:31 PM.
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Old October 10th, 2016, 04:23 PM   #18
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I use the Geissele suppressor alignment rod. Similar tool, different company.

Thanks from tonyben
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Old October 10th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #19
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I'm using the SEI adapter with the Specwar Trifecta flash suppressor. I didn't know anything about squaring the muzzle face.

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Old October 10th, 2016, 07:34 PM   #20
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Is there a good tutorial on how to mount/install the adapter?

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Old October 11th, 2016, 05:35 AM   #21
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OP,
It is very possible that you are just barely "scrubbing" the end cap on your can. You may have to look very closely under good light to pick it up (below). Even the lightest kiss on the end cap will destabilize the bullet. A precision alignment rod will show bullet path thru the end cap. You can now get a store-bought rod. These were not widely available years back. So I would use a generic precision alignment rod from a supply house for $7 (below). Bolt rifles and ARs are pretty easy to check visually. But M14s & other semi-autos are very hard to check visually so should be checked with an alignment rod before being fired. Tolerance stacking of the barrel threads/muzzle runout/mount threads/mount/suppressor threads/suppressor can all add up then bite you in the a**. Don't let anyone tell you that an alignment check with a precision rod in not needed. And IMO, the best accuracy is achieved with the bullet passing along as close to the center axis of the baffles/end cap as possible. HTH

Light scrub mark visible after approx. 30 rounds of LC M80 BALL/M852/M118LR. I would have a good group going and then it would pitch one well outside the group.



Alignment rod indicates bullet was occasionally just barely scrubbing the endcap:


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Last edited by leid; October 18th, 2016 at 02:00 PM.
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Old October 11th, 2016, 05:53 AM   #22
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I'm not familiar with SEI's adapter but the Delta P came with instructions that stated that it "might" be necessary to square the muzzle face to get the adapter to align properly to the bore.

Not being familiar with the SEI adapter I will assume it indexes the same way as the Delta P (tightens down on the muzzle face).

If the muzzle (or whatever the SEI adapter indexes on) isn't square, when you tighten down the adapter it will pull to one side throwing your alignment off.

Reference the problems you're having with keyholing its 100% guaranteed you have an alignment problem.

The most likely problem is the muzzle face not being square but it could be an issue known as tolerance stacking.

Tolerance stacking can be described as your barrel threads being a smidge off, combined with your adapted bieng slightly out of spec, along with the suppressor attachment device being slightly out of spec, along with you're suppressor being out of spec.

All those (or just a couple) of those issues combined will cause the issue your describing.

If it were me though, I'd start where your SEI adapter indexes and work from there.

I'd bet that whatever that adapter is tightening down on isn't square.

Reference a tutorial on squaring the muzzle face, its going to be similar to re cutting your barrels crown.

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Old October 11th, 2016, 06:45 AM   #23
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A baffle or endcap strike would cause your zero to drastically change by several inches if not feet. Even if it's just glancing. As suggested, call the suppressor manufacturer and ask them the likely cause of tumbling bullets when the suppressor is installed.

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Old October 11th, 2016, 07:21 AM   #24
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Luckily the specwar is tank tough built by a reputable company.
Suppressing the m1a is a pain.
Please keep us updated in the results.

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Old October 11th, 2016, 07:48 AM   #25
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I think LEID has nailed it. Iíve had alignment issues first with my M1A, still unresolved, with my AK - resolved. I think anyway... One of them behaves better, the other I enlarged the end cap opening for. Itís a bit ironic that my $350 AK had better barrel / thread alignment than my 1300 socom 16 :-/


What do your targets look like closer in and at 100 yards?

I ask because one of my cans shifts the impact of the subsonic AK rounds to the left. The impact holes are clean and round out to 50 yards. Mine are form 1 cans, but ... a friend has a 9mm commercial can that had some key holing with 147 grain pills. This was visible consistently from 3 - 25 yards.

Your troubleshooting so far has indicated that mount the can results in sideways target strikes; removing the can resolves the issue. This confirms the problem is at least related to the suppressor, mount and / or alignment of the can.

chasing this down further could prove difficult. as others have commented, this could be muzzle device to barrel, muzzle device to can or can to barrel if no adapter.

One thing I did with my F1 cans was purchase a 5/8x24 direct attach end cap, which confirmed my mount and adapter were not the cause of the mis-alignment, it was the barrel threads. The guide rod illustrated the misalignment visibly.

Good luck

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Old October 11th, 2016, 06:11 PM   #26
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My range doesn't allow anything under 100 yards...

Great feedback all....thank you. I can't wait to get home and examine the alignment.

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Old October 15th, 2016, 10:52 AM   #27
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the more parts involved,the more chance of misalignment

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Old October 15th, 2016, 10:59 AM   #28
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Upon further inspection the castle nut was loose....I took the front end apart and reset everything and in the process...my castle nut pliers broke.

I did receive the alignment tool and frankly, it looks pretty good to me. Unfortunately the castle nut needs torqued down some more and I am waiting for my new pliers to come in.

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Old October 15th, 2016, 10:59 AM   #29
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Upon further inspection the castle nut was loose....I took the front end apart and reset everything and in the process...my castle nut pliers broke.

I did receive the alignment tool and frankly, it looks pretty good to me. Unfortunately the castle nut needs torqued down some more and I am waiting for my new pliers to come in.

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Old October 15th, 2016, 11:00 AM   #30
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I am also thinking about switching to the Specwar break instead of the trifecta flash hider. I think the break will be easier to determine alignment.

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