Talk to me about scope mounts... because I have fallen in love with the Trijicon TR24 - M14 Forum

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Talk to me about scope mounts... because I have fallen in love with the Trijicon TR24

This is a discussion on Talk to me about scope mounts... because I have fallen in love with the Trijicon TR24 within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; OK, so I have fellen in love with the Trijicon Accupoint TR24 and I want to mount one on my 2005ish manufactered Springfield SOCOM16 in ...


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Old October 4th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #1
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Talk to me about scope mounts... because I have fallen in love with the Trijicon TR24

OK, so I have fellen in love with the Trijicon Accupoint TR24 and I want to mount one on my 2005ish manufactered Springfield SOCOM16 in VLTOR modstock.
I have some knowledge about M1A scope mounts, but not alot. I know a little about Basset, Sadlak, Smith, and Springfield, but not enough to decide which is best for me. So here are my requirements:

-I would want the scope to mount rather low, with the rear bell just above the iron sights. The closer to the same plane as irons, the better.
-The mount AND/OR the rings (30mm) MUST be quick detach, preferably with throw levers; it MUST return to zero when removed and reinstalled and with minimal tools.
-When the scope is removed (either via rings or the whole unit), the iron sights must be usable. If they are usable while it is all mounted that is a plus.
-Reliability of the rifle must remain unaffected. No additional jams allowed.
-The unit must be durable and able to withstand combat. This includes rapid fire, environmental abuse, etc. Being lightweight is definitely a plus.

So... whats my best option? Basset's website is promising, as is Smith's. The Sadlak looks good too.

ON THE OTHER HAND, what about just getting a VLTOR CASV? That would certainly provide me a sturdy mount for my optic.
Let me know! Thanks guys


Last edited by masakari; October 4th, 2013 at 07:57 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #2
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For what you have I like the Sadlak, because it will allow you to use your irons. As for a scope rings I like the accupoint QD flattop mount.

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Old October 4th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #3
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GDI OSM.

http://www.gdiengineering.com/store/...mount-275.html

JWB

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Old October 5th, 2013, 06:34 AM   #4
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WOW - that's a little, err PRICEY?

Then add-in a set of QD rings for the optic - and he's at 3/4 the price of the glass itself (since it's not an Acog and will require additional rings to mount).

For the $$ - I'm liking the Vltor - since he already has a mod-stock. It "should fit" seamlessly (fit & finish) with his existing stock. Allows some additional rail options by having a full length rail. Allows use of irons.

OP is still gonna be into another couple of $$'s either way - for QD Low Rings. Repeatable Zero is a factor of the rings - not (as much) the mount. Aside from "magical claims of repeatable zero" - I wouldn't run into a "critical defense situation" without "verifying zero" after a detach ANYWAY.

OP - why are you SO HUNG UP ON this particular optic? A little on the pricey side for what amounts to a "tube style red dot" - no mil marks or hash marks on the stadia (for holds), no adjustability on the turrets (for dials).

For that kind of $$ - you could get into a REAL SCOPE (VX-R or such) with illum, zoom & the capability of doping/dialing distances.

You'd probably be better off with an AimPoint Red-Dot Comp (M3/M4) or an EoTech Holo on a GGG QD mount. Less $$ - mount included - better (potential) repeatability.

Just my $ .02...

Rick

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Old October 5th, 2013, 08:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by RSConsulting View Post
WOW - that's a little, err PRICEY?

...
Rick
Maybe. But I always chuckle when folks compare the price of an optic setup with the price of the overall system. Aside from the accuracy of the rifle, (price not an issue usually...) the optic is the most important factor.

So what if the mount costs almost 5 bills and a scope costs 2K or so? Even if the rifle is only $500.00, the price of the optics should not be compared to the price of the rifle.

I have the GDI and a nice German Zeiss scope on my otherwise plain Jane SAI. The optic setup is almost twice what I paid for the rifle. But it's mine, and it shoots the way I like it.

The GDI is a very solid (STAINLESS steel) mount and is high enough to ensure no feeding problems and has slots far enough to the rear for good eye relief regardless of which scope I use. Use low rings and you can fit a 50mm optic to it. These are Leupold low QRW rings, nothing special about them.

Plus you can use the irons...

JWB
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Old October 5th, 2013, 09:39 AM   #6
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I'd recommend the Sadlak Airborne model. Little lighter weight, channel to see the irons through if your scope doesn't obstruct it, and can mount optics lower overall. If you set it up right, you can run regular rings instead of QD rings. Also, once you install the mount and it's just right, you shouldn't remove it.

Here's a question for the general group... who has a setup where they can use irons and the scope, and actually uses both actively?

Most times it's scoped or it's not. Mine is scoped and I can remove the scope with little effort to use the irons. That's me though, JBW likes his setup, and RSC likes his setup, and so you get 100 opinions which are just that. The 101st is yours and usually the most important one.

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Old October 5th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jbrooks View Post
Maybe. But I always chuckle when folks compare the price of an optic setup with the price of the overall system. Aside from the accuracy of the rifle, (price not an issue usually...) the optic is the most important factor.

So what if the mount costs almost 5 bills and a scope costs 2K or so? Even if the rifle is only $500.00, the price of the optics should not be compared to the price of the rifle.

I have the GDI and a nice German Zeiss scope on my otherwise plain Jane SAI. The optic setup is almost twice what I paid for the rifle. But it's mine, and it shoots the way I like it.

The GDI is a very solid (STAINLESS steel) mount and is high enough to ensure no feeding problems and has slots far enough to the rear for good eye relief regardless of which scope I use. Use low rings and you can fit a 50mm optic to it. These are Leupold low QRW rings, nothing special about them.

Plus you can use the irons...

JWB
Believe me - if you've seen my posts - I am no stranger to spending obscene amounts on $$ on gun-stuff. And there is the current sentiment that an Optics System for precision - should be around 1 to 2X the cost of the gun itself (unless you're getting into "Super-Custom-Gun" $10K Gun Range)

Not that that ISN'T A NICE MOUNT - but a $500 mount for a $1K optic is a little, I dunno. I was debating LESS whether it was (or wasn't) a good mount and fairly priced for that quality - versus the price of the mount compared to the optic that was going to live on it.

That mount would be schweet for a $4K optic though. But even in a "broken scope drill" - I still wouldn't trust zero on a R&R'd optic - without at least truing it at a known distance in my solver.

I actually ordered the CASM-EX yesterday,


for a scoped LR Build I'm starting (in a JAE stock) - but I wasn't really planning on putting a front sight on it - so the lack of NM Rear Irons is not really a consideration. I went with the Alum over steel version - because I really don't believe that the Steel one is going to be $120 BETTER THAN the Alum one.

Rick

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Old October 5th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #8
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Very nice looking ount, RS! With my eyes, I really don't need irons anyway. If my scope goes, it's "point and shoot"...

JWB

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Old October 5th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSConsulting View Post
Believe me - if you've seen my posts - I am no stranger to spending obscene amounts on $$ on gun-stuff. And there is the current sentiment that an Optics System for precision - should be around 1 to 2X the cost of the gun itself (unless you're getting into "Super-Custom-Gun" $10K Gun Range)

Not that that ISN'T A NICE MOUNT - but a $500 mount for a $1K optic is a little, I dunno. I was debating LESS whether it was (or wasn't) a good mount and fairly priced for that quality - versus the price of the mount compared to the optic that was going to live on it.

That mount would be schweet for a $4K optic though. But even in a "broken scope drill" - I still wouldn't trust zero on a R&R'd optic - without at least truing it at a known distance in my solver.

I actually ordered the CASM-EX yesterday,


for a scoped LR Build I'm starting (in a JAE stock) - but I wasn't really planning on putting a front sight on it - so the lack of NM Rear Irons is not really a consideration. I went with the Alum over steel version - because I really don't believe that the Steel one is going to be $120 BETTER THAN the Alum one.

Rick
you know, I was just looking at the regular CASM... it semms like it would do everything that I want. since it has a built in BUIS, I wouldnt need to remove anything, although I would lose some adjustability... not really that big of a deal since I would be using a scope.
Any more info or reviews on the CASM? pictures of the sights through the channel?

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Old October 5th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masakari View Post
OK, so I have fellen in love with the Trijicon Accupoint TR24 and I want to mount one on my 2005ish manufactered Springfield SOCOM16 in VLTOR modstock.
I have some knowledge about M1A scope mounts, but not alot. I know a little about Basset, Sadlak, Smith, and Springfield, but not enough to decide which is best for me. So here are my requirements:

-I would want the scope to mount rather low, with the rear bell just above the iron sights. The closer to the same plane as irons, the better.
-The mount AND/OR the rings (30mm) MUST be quick detach, preferably with throw levers; it MUST return to zero when removed and reinstalled and with minimal tools.
-When the scope is removed (either via rings or the whole unit), the iron sights must be usable. If they are usable while it is all mounted that is a plus.
-Reliability of the rifle must remain unaffected. No additional jams allowed.
-The unit must be durable and able to withstand combat. This includes rapid fire, environmental abuse, etc. Being lightweight is definitely a plus.

So... whats my best option? Basset's website is promising, as is Smith's. The Sadlak looks good too.

ON THE OTHER HAND, what about just getting a VLTOR CASV? That would certainly provide me a sturdy mount for my optic.
Let me know! Thanks guys
Having just come back from a low light shoot using both the green dot TR24 and an aimpoint Iíd like to offer some feedback.

1st, I have the aim point on my M1A Soc16. I like it. For what it is, the optic performed flawlessly. One thing that the Trijicon had it beat on was in the darkening period just before complete darkness. I have good vision, and using the Trijicon on 1x next to the aim point, the TR24 offered a clear, distinct advantage in visibility.

In complete darkness in which a light is needed for the target, I still think the aim point is superior. Itís not that you canít use the Trijicon in this role, just that itís not as intuitive I think.

I have the ultimak upper on my Socom 16, so I will probably keep the aim point on it. However, were I to buy another and I were to consider this again, I think that I would consider strongly the TR24 on one of the mounts mentioned below that allows use of the irons. The weight trade off wouldnít be bad, and it would be more balanced.

Since you have the mod stock already, the AR PEPR by Burris would mount the scope, but it would be high. something you might be able to account for, but you would need to see it mated up. For my application I went with a set of warne low mount 30mm rings. These would probably end up at least partially obscuring the irons, itís tough to say ( I have them on another gun)

I will not try to discourage you from the TR24, I have scored three of them, all German crosshair, green dot models, 2 of which were at a gun show for $700 out the door. They are on rifles belonging to friends of mine.

Good luck with the mount situation!

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Old October 5th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by masakari View Post
you know, I was just looking at the regular CASM... it semms like it would do everything that I want. since it has a built in BUIS, I wouldnt need to remove anything, although I would lose some adjustability... not really that big of a deal since I would be using a scope.
Any more info or reviews on the CASM? pictures of the sights through the channel?
www.m14.ca

Nice guys. Talked to Frank there the other day.

Forum member Lazerus2000 works with these guys too...

Rick

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Old October 5th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #12
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so far, every bit of info is pointing me to Basset or the CASM mount. two very different solutions. I've got to decide between the two now... tough decision!

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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #13
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check eye relief and length of scope. you will have to get the scope back far enough to use it with out turkey necking forward. not to many scope mounts allow that

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Old October 6th, 2013, 05:55 AM   #14
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so far, every bit of info is pointing me to Basset or the CASM mount. two very different solutions. I've got to decide between the two now... tough decision!
Definitely very different methodologies.

And, as Valken intimated, there is a consideration of scope height and eye relief distances to consider - usually less to non-existent with Red Dot/Holo's - but a factor with tube-type scopes (as well as parallax issues with poi, induced by not viewing squarely into the eyepiece) - in ADDITION TO - not having a high enough cheek-riser to get COMFORTABLY BEHIND the glass (the latter being more easily remedied on a Modstock, than a standard wood/plastic stock).

The benefit of the Bassett over the CASM is: the Bassett is more easily removed in a hurry - whereas the CASM is pretty much IN THERE - and even if removed quickly - doesn't leave you WITH IRONS as a backup (think - damaged optic) though the peephole is still said to be effective at SHORT DISTANCES.

Also consider that the LOW Bassett mount is going to block the irons - and the HIGH mount may be TOO HIGH for your setup (factoring in RING HEIGHT ALSO)

A semi-permanant mount (that requires rear sight removal like the CASM) may be more of a hindrance in a platform that is setup for more of a CQB role (versus the LR Precision with HiMag Glass role that I purchased mine for).

Also - depends on HOW QUICKLY you want it.

I know CASM's are in stock and available from M14.ca now - Bassett's may be a little wait to get one - keeping in mind that both manufacturers (Bassett & M14.ca) are SMALL BUSINESSES - not "mega-manufacturers" (like Trijicon, who also, has been somewhat backed up in production lately).

But I wouldn't necessarily WRITE OFF the VLTOR CASV-14 either - as it will give you a FULL RAIL (for mounting other devices), the ability to use your irons as backup, will probably have a decent fit & finish with your VLTOR MODSTOCK.

I guess I made it HARDER, not easier to decide here, right?

If it were a SINGLE RIFLE (like your ONLY M14), which had multiple roles desired - I'd probably go for the Basset or VLTOR - leaning a little more towards the VLTOR at this point...


Rick

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Old October 6th, 2013, 06:19 AM   #15
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You do make very valid points. The VLTOR is not out of the running, but one of my concerns is weight. Having just sold my Ultimak rail, my M1A is noticeable lighter; were I to get the VLTOR rail and scope, the weight would be even more than before.
Also, one of my main issues with the Ultimak was how hot it got during firing... not the best for CQB. I'm not sure if the VLTOR would suffer from the same issue, but I am really liking the option of sticking with a plastic handguard only at this point.
The CASM has a built in iron sight, and in an emergency (or just when I feel like shooting irons) it would be usable and adequate. The Basset mount is supposedly quickly removable and return to zero, so even if i remove it to use irons, they say I can remount it without issue. using only 22 inch pounds of torque with the included wrench does unnerve me though, it just seems so little.
This is my only M1A. I have 2 AR15s for general combat, and they are my go to rifles because lets face it, the AR15 is just too accurate and simple NOT to use for defense. That said, I do frequently sleep with my M1A beside my bed, and if I can get it authorized, I would have no problem using it as a duty rifle. So this rifle is to mean business, and whatever setup I choose must be reliable. I must be able to bet my life on it.
So... Basset or CASM? Hmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSConsulting View Post
Definitely very different methodologies.

And, as Valken intimated, there is a consideration of scope height and eye relief distances to consider - usually less to non-existent with Red Dot/Holo's - but a factor with tube-type scopes (as well as parallax issues with poi, induced by not viewing squarely into the eyepiece) - in ADDITION TO - not having a high enough cheek-riser to get COMFORTABLY BEHIND the glass (the latter being more easily remedied on a Modstock, than a standard wood/plastic stock).

The benefit of the Bassett over the CASM is: the Bassett is more easily removed in a hurry - whereas the CASM is pretty much IN THERE - and even if removed quickly - doesn't leave you WITH IRONS as a backup (think - damaged optic) though the peephole is still said to be effective at SHORT DISTANCES.

Also consider that the LOW Bassett mount is going to block the irons - and the HIGH mount may be TOO HIGH for your setup (factoring in RING HEIGHT ALSO)

A semi-permanant mount (that requires rear sight removal like the CASM) may be more of a hindrance in a platform that is setup for more of a CQB role (versus the LR Precision with HiMag Glass role that I purchased mine for).

Also - depends on HOW QUICKLY you want it.

I know CASM's are in stock and available from M14.ca now - Bassett's may be a little wait to get one - keeping in mind that both manufacturers (Bassett & M14.ca) are SMALL BUSINESSES - not "mega-manufacturers" (like Trijicon, who also, has been somewhat backed up in production lately).

But I wouldn't necessarily WRITE OFF the VLTOR CASV-14 either - as it will give you a FULL RAIL (for mounting other devices), the ability to use your irons as backup, will probably have a decent fit & finish with your VLTOR MODSTOCK.

I guess I made it HARDER, not easier to decide here, right?

If it were a SINGLE RIFLE (like your ONLY M14), which had multiple roles desired - I'd probably go for the Basset or VLTOR - leaning a little more towards the VLTOR at this point...


Rick

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