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KRIEGER vs. CRITERION vs. DOUGLAS

This is a discussion on KRIEGER vs. CRITERION vs. DOUGLAS within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by bd111 AR spacegun or varmint rig, get the Krieger barrel. In .224 cal it's that much better than the competition. .308 cal ...


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Old August 22nd, 2012, 02:46 PM   #16
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AR spacegun or varmint rig, get the Krieger barrel. In .224 cal it's that much better than the competition. .308 cal all 3 of the ones mentioned are a good products. The lapped-in barrels (Krieger and Douglas) MIGHT shoot good longer and clean easier. Good ammo is more important than which badge on the barrel.
I think you are saying that the various barrels are so close in quality that other things (ammo, stock, etc.) decide the outcome...not that other things are more important than a quality barrel?

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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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I think I've got my ammo tuned as well
as I can. I've been getting fantastic accuracy with my hand loads & GI barrel. I even shot a 1/2 MOA 5-shot group last week. Obviously that's not the norm, but I'm regularly getting 1.25"-1.5" 10 shot groups at 100. It really has me wondering what I could do with a top notch barrel.
I do agree that ammo is key. I have not shot a factory load that can touch my home-rolled in my M1A. However, It takes me a lot of work( flash hole deburring, pocket uniforming, segregating, neck turning, etc.) to get the performance I am getting now. I'll burn through nearly 160 rounds this week. I gotta slow down!

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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by chefcam864 View Post
I think I've got my ammo tuned as well
as I can. I've been getting fantastic accuracy with my hand loads & GI barrel. I even shot a 1/2 MOA 5-shot group last week. Obviously that's not the norm, but I'm regularly getting 1.25"-1.5" 10 shot groups at 100. It really has me wondering what I could do with a top notch barrel.
I do agree that ammo is key. I have not shot a factory load that can touch my home-rolled in my M1A. However, It takes me a lot of work( flash hole deburring, pocket uniforming, segregating, neck turning, etc.) to get the performance I am getting now. I'll burn through nearly 160 rounds this week. I gotta slow down!
Don't slow down, you are on a roll, stay the course. 200 a week is not too bad for a burn rate, by the time you burn a barrel or two you are ready to dish out some serious ass kicking in high power matches.

Good shooting.

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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:34 PM   #19
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I think Douglas barrels are superior and often overlooked in todays market. Of those you mentioned you'll likely not be disappointed, but Douglas is kind of old school, classy.

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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:37 PM   #20
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I thought Kreiger owned Criterion 82nd? My only experience is "GI" and Criterion so can't compare.
Many people are under that belief, they are to some extent but it is two completely differnt factories. To funds comingle? I'm not even certain of that.

With regards to the op second question about a Krieger vs GI it will be night and day. I don't get poi movement from my first cold bore shot to the 20th shot when the bbl is warm.
I always say and I'll say it again when it comes to mechanical accuracy of any rifle the majority of it comes from the bbl and trigger. However you cut the mustard Krieger bbls like Douglas are held to higher tolerances and standard. I'll give you an example. I special ordered a 28 inch -15 bbl. You will wait! I expected it in 4-6 months. It took 9. Reason they scrapped the first one during one of many inspections the bbls go through along the production line. Again I'm not selling criterion short. I get piece of mind knowing that I am getting what I paid for. Are kbi bbls for everyone obviously not. I'm not trying to jam them down your throat but they are that good and then some. I stop myself from answering threads about receivers because I get flack about suggesting LRB. It might be time to do the same with kbi bbls. The proof is in the pudding, I not sure how many national championships were won with criterion bbls nor am I aware of bow many were made with kbi bbls but I can venture a guess and say the scales of justice weigh in on the side of kbi.

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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:45 PM   #21
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:50 PM   #22
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I have 2 M1As with Krieger heavy barrels. From now on, every full size rifle will get one when rebarreled or if it's a new project. I can't wait to shoot out my stock Standard M1A to upgrade it.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 10:55 PM   #23
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Few High Master shooters can shoot the differance between barrel makers, Obermeyer, Krieger, Rock Creek, Satern, McGowen, Dougles/Barnett, PacNor and the list gets longer. If you like the way a barrel is made there is alot of options here, single point/broached cut, number of rifling 4-6 groove, rifling styles conventional or 3r/5r and the list goes on and on but you need to have some idea of what your wanting to narrow down your field of posible makers what weight bullets are you going to use will help deside the twist rate. After that its the barrel makers reputation you should be down to one or two barrel makers at this point, flip a coin if your still undesided.

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Last edited by Phil McGrath; August 22nd, 2012 at 11:10 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 06:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
Few High Master shooters can shoot the differance between barrel makers, Obermeyer, Krieger, Rock Creek, Satern, McGowen, Dougles/Barnett, PacNor and the list gets longer. If you like the way a barrel is made there is alot of options here, single point/broached cut, number of rifling 4-6 groove, rifling styles conventional or 3r/5r and the list goes on and on but you need to have some idea of what your wanting to narrow down your field of posible makers what weight bullets are you going to use will help deside the twist rate. After that its the barrel makers reputation you should be down to one or two barrel makers at this point, flip a coin if your still undesided.
You bring up a good point. I know twist rate is most dictated by bearing surface, but I have no idea why one would use a 4 groove, 6 groove, 5R etc... What are some of the advantages/disadvantages of using different numbers of groves, or Obermeyer 5R. This is something I've never fully understood. I think m TRW GI is 1-12" 6 grooves. I only shoot 168's ( usually Nosler CC or Hornady match) and 155 A-max. The A-max took me a while to get to shoot(I now seat them .008" off the lands) but once I got them shooting they were GREAT! I wish I could get them to shoot at mag length. I also have the Noslers .010" off the lands, but they still fit the mag at an oal of 2.845".

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Old August 23rd, 2012, 06:38 AM   #25
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My issue is weight. The heavy barrels make the rifles much too heavy for my tastes. I wouldn't go anything bigger than a medium barrel. I never take out my Supermatch. I much prefer my standard rifles around 9.0 - 9.5 lbs. They shoot MOA with Criterion barrels. I wouldn't ignore the weight factor. I have 2 Glenn Nelson built NMs and a Nelson built SM. They sit in the safe. My standard M14 clones go to the range and I plink steel out to 500M with ease.

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Old August 23rd, 2012, 12:03 PM   #26
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I'm not a barrel expert and can only give general info, many people feel that barrels with more land/grooves work with longer bullets the rifling engraves better. 3r/5r barrels seem grenerate less chamber pressures, the bullet jackets swage into the rifling softer with less distortion and they tend too run a little faster for m/v with the same loads as theres less bore friction. These are just generalities and not absolutes, chamber reamers can and do have a direct influance as well.

I have been a fan of 5r barrels for along time, I just haven't picked one up.




P.s. USGI barrels are 4 groove tubes.

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Old August 23rd, 2012, 04:00 PM   #27
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I have a douglas/barnett BBL on my DGR M1 Garand that I have for sale on the classified boards on this sight.

I have 200 rounds through it and it shoots real nice. I dont know why no one wants that gun but I am going to pull it soon and put something else up for sale.

The douglas/barnett BBL is real quality you can see it and the way it shoots. I just dont shoot garands any more. My eyes need a scope.

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