M14 Forum

SOCOM16owner · February 15th, 2012, 09:21 PM

This was a fun read. I remember and think I still have this magazine somewhere. http://archives.gunsandammo.com/cont...th-an-attitude

geepee3 · February 15th, 2012, 10:13 PM

Here may be some of the confusion about the early Socom rifles.
If you look at the pictures that accompany the article in SOCOM16owner post #31.
There is a picture of the prototype gas lock and proprietary gas plug that RAMMAC's post #26 talked about.

My rifles final inspection date is 8/29/2006 and has a thicker bottom at the gas lock base and had a standard gas plug. This was the change in the production rifles also mentioned in RAMMAC's post #26.

To the O.P. I hope none of our passion has turned you off.
I will say that this thread has turned into a learning experience about the history of the rifle we enjoy. And that is a good thing.

Glenn

m1jerm · February 15th, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereToLearn

My Socom 16 had a some minor accuracy issues out of the box (in addition to the guy pulling the trigger). I was literally 'all over the place' on the target. I knew it wasn't all me and the first thing I noticed was the SA fiberglass stock rubbing the SA handguard. I got a Fulton Armory Scout Squad Rail (Amega Ranges actually makes it, mine was a rebranded for FA) and a walnut stock for it. Now I'm pretty much able to hit bullseye or within 3 inches from 100 yards, when I have my act together. SA really needs to offer a version of the Socom 16 with a walnut stock, imo.

HeretoLearn, they did make a limited run of the 16 in walnut, and in the fine tradition of empirical evidenciary (is that a word?) support this thread is cultivating, here it is (right under its big brother the scout.

nf1e@snet.net · February 16th, 2012, 03:20 AM

Great choice. Nice to read your decision making routine. I enjoy my Socom II. I did take all the extra metal junk off and put it in a wood stock. I am sure it will match or beat your accuracy expectations. Enjoy your new rifle.
Semper Fi
Art

mountainmarty · February 16th, 2012, 02:33 PM

I like your thought process prior to your purchase 1911A1Guy. I too purchased the compact, heavy hitting Socom 16. You understand it's limitations but it's the positives that we really like. Once you get it in your hands (maybe after a few tweeks here and there) you will be amazed at it's true potential. The biggest Hardy D Har I've heard is about the report. I like it! I have a few loud firearms, (.300 Winchester Mag. and a 4" S&W .44 Mag.) the Socom isn't any worse. Great purchase, and welcome aboard! By the way how much longer are you going to have to wait to get her in your hands?

BoneDawg · February 16th, 2012, 03:24 PM

I too am looking for a SOCOM now that I have my NM M1A tweaked for my taste. My sentimnets for 1911 as I feel his head is swimming in all kinds of info now. Just absorb as much as you can and buy what you feel will give you the most bang for your buck (yes, pun intended

). With a M14 platform, you can't go wrong IMO. 7.62 flying down range is a great feeling if it's out of an EBR, Standard or SOCOM....so enjoy your purchase, post your pic and give us range reports!

GeneCo · February 16th, 2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

I also found mention that the SOCOM 16 actually started as a project for the military to find a short 7.62x51mm rifle but the project was dropped when the military complained about the muzzle flash and noise.

Hmmm, seems to me that they'd attach a supressor and have a suppressed M-14 in a smaller pkg( than a full sized suppressed m-14)

Anyway, I went the Socom 16 route as well....here's mine
http://m1arifles.com/forum/index.php...09-my-socom16/

Mocos · February 21st, 2012, 02:41 PM

you gotta remember that things change....hopefully for the better....I suspect that the first socoms were different and what was true then may not be so today. SA has made changes to improve the product and hopefully they will continue to do so. With every new owner will come the familiar phrase " Why doesn't SA .......? and sometimes someone listens and something new appears whether it be an accessory or a factory modification....it's all to improve the breed.... Looking at the socoms I have, it looks like the first one was after all the early early models as the last one I purchased is the same as the first one......I did not go for the socom II's.

RAMMAC · February 21st, 2012, 05:38 PM

I figured that I'd take my own advice and contacted Mr. Rader for information about the rifle. I'm sorry for taking this conversation off track a little but I wanted to make sure that some of my false information was properly corrected. Here is some of what Mr. Rader said about the rifle (I used several quotes because I only copied the pertinent comments from the original e-mail).

Quote:

The rifle was NOT a military project when it started. Rob Leatham wanted a rifle for matches that he could keep up with the AR platforms. I designed the 16.25" rifle and changed the gas system and muzzle brake to better control recoil. The original gas port was actually SMALLER than the full length gas port. The gas system volume was also reduced to get the GI piston to cycle properly. The original muzzle brake sent great pressure back through the gas system hence the reduction in port size and volume.

Quote:

Once the rifle was built and copies made. we sent some to NSWC Crane, Dam Neck, VA and Camp Atterbury, IN for the Navy to play with. We also built a few rifles on full auto receivers to see how they performed (which was AWESOME)!! The Navy liked them but for the designed purpose, other guns were better suited...lighter, shorter and more versatile. There are some being used in the military but they are not an issue rifle by any means.

Quote:

All of the receivers are the same and pulled out of a tub to be built into whatever rifle. You may have NM rifles, loadeds and SOCOMs come out of the same tub. The only different receivers were the M25 and the Supermatch which had a rear lug welded on them. All receivers are the same. All gas systems are the same. All op rods are the same. The gas cylinder lock on the SOCOM is the difference since it is a different thread pitch and is a part of the muzzle brake. Along those lines, the thread pitch was changed to never have to use shims on the SOCOM. The thread pitch is so fine that the gas system can be adjusted with the lock. It is a 40tpi pitch where the standard is a 20tpi pitch.

That should pretty well cover the more common questions and disagreements about the rifle.

1911A1Guy · February 21st, 2012, 06:09 PM

Great info. Thanks.

Mocos · February 21st, 2012, 06:42 PM

RAMMAC

" The gas cylinder lock on the SOCOM is the difference since it is a different thread pitch and is a part of the muzzle brake. Along those lines, the thread pitch was changed to never have to use shims on the SOCOM. The thread pitch is so fine that the gas system can be adjusted with the lock. It is a 40tpi pitch where the standard is a 20tpi pitch"

Does this suggest not to shim a socom because of the possibility of misalignment of the ports or shim to align the ports if they are not aligned and then stone the muzzle brake to achieve the 5 oclock friction point? In a different thread, you stoned it muzzle brake to eliminate the gap between the muzzle and the beginning of the muzzle brake "throat"? Did you shim too?

RAMMAC · February 21st, 2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mocos

RAMMAC

" The gas cylinder lock on the SOCOM is the difference since it is a different thread pitch and is a part of the muzzle brake. Along those lines, the thread pitch was changed to never have to use shims on the SOCOM. The thread pitch is so fine that the gas system can be adjusted with the lock. It is a 40tpi pitch where the standard is a 20tpi pitch"

Does this suggest not to shim a socom because of the possibility of misalignment of the ports or shim to align the ports if they are not aligned and then stone the muzzle brake to achieve the 5 oclock friction point? In a different thread, you stoned it muzzle brake to eliminate the gap between the muzzle and the beginning of the muzzle brake "throat"? Did you shim too?

I didn't ask Mr. Rader so I don't really know what he would say.

In my case, I started with shims but eventually I put a unitized gas cylinder (welded version from SA) in place. After stoning, the gas cylinder lock (and muzzle break) turns freely until a little before the 5 o'clock position and then I tighten to the 6 o'clock position by hand against resistance. The lock isn't gorilla tight but it's snubbed up tight enough that I don't see any evidence of carbon leaking out around the lock ring and gas cylinder contact area. I don't think that I could hand tighten to more than 8 o'clock.

m14brian · February 21st, 2012, 10:31 PM

Hey RAMMAC!
How much improvement in accuracy would you say you got by switching to the SA M25 NM unitized gas cylinder? I was thinking about that for my Socom II.
m14brian

RAMMAC · February 21st, 2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m14brian

Hey RAMMAC!
How much improvement in accuracy would you say you got by switching to the SA M25 NM unitized gas cylinder? I was thinking about that for my Socom II.
m14brian

I hate to admit it but I really can't say. I started with shims and they made enough improvement that I felt that they were worth keeping. Then I decided to install the unitized gas cylinder because I wanted the benefit of not having to worry about some tiny little part that might fail and cause problems. I know that the unitized parts didn't make anything worse and I do remember that it fit tighter overall. I also remember checking for gas port alignment and the unitized gas cylinder provided perfect alignment without any shims. Sorry for not being more specific than that but I'm terrible at being consistent with my note taking.

m14brian · February 22nd, 2012, 11:27 PM

No, that's cool. Thanks anyway. I'll go through your posts and read up, I know you've done a lot to yours I know. My Socom II is my SHTF rifle so I haven't messed with it too much. Some aftermarket parts to improve reliability, but accuracy wise no work yet. I think I will price the Smith Enterprise Socom barrel, get that installed someday, along with the SA unitized gas cylinder/shim. Unfortunately, in CA I think I'm stuck with the factory front end though. I will be keeping the factory stock, maybe get it glass bedded too. It's more important to have full magazine capacity for an emergency rifle than a pistol grip.
Did you have yours glass bedded before you got your J.A.E.-100?
m14brian