M14 Forum

dgheriani

I would love to take you up on that offer, I even have a good buddy in Victoria I've been meaning to visit as I haven't even seen his son yet... Unfortunately (not really but in regards to my making it to the Island) I'll be spending the weekend in Bralorne with my lady friend renovating the electrical system at a friend's house and playing with snowmobiles and skis :)

I would love to come out to the Island sometime though and try out your stock. Are you still doing M14 seminars?

Lazerus2000

My M14 seminar handout notes re
The M14: Inspection, Maintenance, Repair, and Modification
are available on line at;
http://www.m14.ca/seminar/M14_Seminar_EBR.pdf

This way of dispensing the information part of my seminars makes it available to anyone, TO READ AT THEIR OWN TIME ... for free
And you don't have to travel over to Fantasy Island for that.

As for the "Show and Tell" part of the M14 seminar learning experience, I may do a DVD Video some time. AGAIN, available to anyone TO VIEW AT THEIR OWN TIME ... and you don't have to travel over to Fantasy Island.

However, Frank [ of M14.CA ] has been agitating me to do some more real time, face to face M14 instructional seminars. Frank met me at one of my M14 seminars a few years ago and during that experience he got REALLY hooked on the M14 rifles. Frank has a big commercial building in Duncan, BC, which he is thinking about making into a fully equipped shop for his M14 accessory business, and POSSIBLY GETTING A LICENSE FOR GUNSMITING. If he goes forward with this, he wants some hands on Seminars ... but these would cost $$$ to attend.

There is something to be said for LIVE ACTION / FACE to FACE / REAL TIME / DIALOG as a learning method that can't be duplicated in text or even a video. Plus you get to meet some other interesting M14 enthusiasts, and compare toys, experience, and opinions.

TTFN
LAZ 1
[;)

JUGGERNAUT TACTICAL

hey, I don't remember selling Sarah a chassis????.......that one must have slipped by me!

Mocos

Just so I/we can follow the thread...what stock might that be? M-4 sounds AR-ish..izzat something else?

Mocos

fwiw....here's another option.....post #67

Hopco USA Micro Red dot Sight Mount for the M1, M1A/M14 Platform

Tommo

I like the standard USGI synthetic stock with the selector cut and receiver voids filled with an epoxy like PC7. I line the forend with about 1/8 inch of epoxy too. Though adding weight, it gives the rifle a more solid feel while not being overly heavy. Also helps the accuracy too.

Though I made a folding stock version similar to Lazerus2000's with a USGI synthetic stock and the folding part from a Butler Creek folder, I find the USGI stock the most comfortable and easiest to shoot with.

Though I do have McMillian heavy target stocks on my double lugged match rifles, they are too heavy for most purposes IMHO.

Rican Havoc

I would advise revisiting the VLTOR system, for the following reasons:

• The stock actually weighs less than a traditional wooden stock.
• By adjusting the extension tube height, the buttstock can be placed directly inline with the action, eliminating the need for cheek rests/risers while using a scope or close-quarters optics.
• The eMod stock itself offers much better cushioning at the buttpad, which translates into a rifle that I can shoot for longer and with less fatigue than a traditional metal butt plate.
• With the USGI Fiberglass base, the rifle is not subject to the same level of point-of-impact shifts resulting from changes in temperature & humidity as the wooden stocks are

Lazerus2000

I braved the SNOW and HAIL and went shooting today with two of our ALLOY EBR stocked shorties.

Weight with no mag is about 8.5 lbs.

I brought along my buddy Jim, who in the "real" world is a currently serving member of the Canadian Armed Forces, and in the "game" world is an A class shooter. He is also one of the most knowledgeable and credible small arms experts I personally know, with REAL WORLD experience to back up his opinions. Also he's an amateur gunsmith, with a pretty sophisticate machine shop in his garage, and is the kind of guy who puts a 200 HP motor into his skidoo, and a V8 into his Fiero as a hobby.

Jim is a HANDS ON Handy kind of guy ... a real GEARHEAD ... who appreciates HIGH performance / low drag in every activity he engages in.

Jim and I did some CQB drills with both M14 shorties, one equipped with a 1.5 - 6X 30 mm scope, and the other with a JB red dot, and with three different compensators. Jim much preferred the red dot, while I prefer the scope. Jim did some easy passes to get a feel for the new EBR stock, and then sped things up a bit. Then we changed compensators to compare the change in the "FEEL" of each comp. The three comps all have slightly different "FEEL" as they draw the line between RECOIL CONTROL / MUZZLE BLAST / MUZZLE RISE in different places. One comp has almost zero muzzle rise, but a bit more recoil. One comp has the least felt recoil, but a bit more rise. And the third has the least muzzle flash and muzzle blast.

He really liked the final configuration, with an 18.5" barrel, the very effective SS Miceluk type comp, and the JB red dot. He said there was almost no DOT BOUNCE when doing fast double taps with this configuration ... not that a 7.62 really needs double taps.

I have some video I took on my cell phone ... and if it looks SNOWY, that is because it WAS snowing and hailing. I'll try to edit the video and get it up here.

So far, it is lookin' good for the initial CQB part of our EBR stock trials.
Now on to more CQB testing and the accuracy and durability trials.
LAZ 1
[;)

bubbagum

I am on the waiting list for one of the Blackfeather stocks. Hoping to put an Ace folder on and a Red Jacket aluminum stock http://dpharms.com/images/RJF%20stock%20final%20web.jpg

I think that will be exactly what I have been looking for; a fairly light, rock solid folder.

JUGGERNAUT TACTICAL

That looks really trick!

Lazerus2000

I don't do "serious accuracy / target" builds any more on the M14. Since I had my eyes lasered in Y2K, I personally can't shoot iron sights accurately ... no more, no how. So I no longer do any conventional competitive "target" shooting. These days, my interests lie mainly in the Shorter/quicker/ ENHANCED EBR versions of the 14, and the shorter/quicker games you can play with them. However, on EVERY 14 I get, during my initial inspection, I also do some light tweaking and tuning to make a standard / "rack grade" 14 as accurate and as reliable as I can make it ...
without adding any expensive extra bits.

I KNOW there are many others who expect MUCH better accuracy from their M14 rifles, but as I've said before,
I personally consider a 2" @ 100 yd M14 GOOD ENOUGH.

Back in the day,
when the M14 WAS the "King of the Target Tuned Battle Rifles",
2" was considered "good enough for Govt work",
and it is still good enough for me and my M14 rifles.

My current Chinese 14 rifle is basically stock except for my standard tightening and tweaking, a CASM Gen 2 scope mount, a Bushnell 10X Tactical scope, and a prototype ROUND SS op rod spring guide we are testing. This particular Chinese 14 has proven capable of 5 shot 100 yd groups at around 1.5" ... with the ammo it likes best, and with the US GI fiberglass drop in stock it likes best, on a day when I am doing my best.

I've seen some Chinese 14s that do better, I've seen some that would do worse. But a 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" capable Chinese M14 is the norm around here, up in the Great White North. And these rifles come to us, BRAND NEW, out of the box, at as low as $ 399 Canuck Bucks ... so we have a LOT of them up here.

Therefor, from my Canucklehead point of view, it is very appropriate [ aka QUITE PROPER, ACTUALLY!! ] that I chose a standard Chinese 14 as the test rifle for testing our Alloy EBR stock, and the effects our new free floating ADJUSTABLE FOR TENSION op rod guide may have on accuracy..

Yesterday, with this same Chinese 14 in our Alloy EBR stock, with the FREE FLOATED op rod guide adjustable tensioner set to pull slightly down, [ 1/2 turn tension on a 20 pitch screw ] we got 100 yd five shot 2" groups with Chinese 7.62X51 BALL [ Machine Gun ammo de-linked right at the shooting bench ] and about the same with .308 Win 150 GR Fed SP hunting ammo. A promising start for our accuracy testing, but more tuning and adjusting of the adjustable free floating op rod guide will hopefully get these groups down further. I am personally hoping that when I find "the sweet spot", that this Chinese 14 will shoot even better in the alloy EBR stock than the 1 1/2" it has already demonstrated in a GI stock.

The "Weird Science" M14 experiments continue ...
some preliminary runs with the tension adjustments changed,
some runs to see what getting the system HOT does to accuracy,
and then on to the serious [ and EXPENSIVE ] tests with the FED 168 GR HPBT Gold Medal Match. At $ 2.00 a shot for the good stuff, and a projected torture test of 1200 rounds, we don't want to waste the expensive ammo till the finish line is closer.

I'll keep you posted.
[;)
LAZ 1

Lazerus2000

Back shooting the Blackfeather Stocked 14 again yesterday and today.

I'm playing around with various variables aside from the stock, trying to minimise group size before starting playing around with the adjustable free floated op rod guide.

Yesterday was rainy and dim/overcast. I tried swapping in a slightly fatter [ .500" ] piston, just to see what would happen. Best I could do was 5 shots into 2" with Fed 168 gr GMM.

Next morning I swapped back in the original piston [.499" ] and without cleaning the bore, my first five shot group, from a COLD bore was 1 5/8", with my first shot 1/2" high of my POA, a 3/4" RED circular price tag sticky.

You'd think this would make me happy, but NO!!!!

What is really p!ssing me off, and confusing me is that this group was with the 7,62 JT Chinese BALL ammo, the cheapest Berdan primed throw away ammo we could buy, for use in our long term 1200 rd durablity testing. These initial five shots were shot rather sloppily, intended mostly to warm up the barrel and chase out the spiders. My second 5 shot group, shot with all the skill I could muster, with Fed 168 GR GMM was 2" ... no better than yesterday, and worse than with the Chinese BALL????. My third group, with the barrel slightly hotter than hand temperature, was 2 3/8".

I'm beginning to suspect the ammo shot might not matter as much as the fact that the bore was cold, and not cleaned??

I'll follow up this theory again tomorrow, but am wondering if any one else has experience with M14 cold bore shot groups being more accurate than the following warm bore shot groups???
Especially, some one with SAGE or AKM experience, WITH A FREE FLOATING OP ROD GUIDE???

I'm not talking about heat expansion pushing the groups out into a line from contact with some stock interference ... the groups were still nice and round .... just bigger.
Possibly due to improper gas assembly tension [ the lock hand tightens to 5 o'clock like it should? ].

HMMmmmm???
I do have one of the DLASK ADJUSTABLEGas locks, but I wasn't planning to play with thgis till later. Things are complicated enough already.

LAZ 1
[;)

Mocos

If you do that and you get your base down to say ...1 moa before introducing the tension adjustments...what's the chance it's going to go sub moa? You keep talking about adding different variables....because you don't like the results of establishing a base? So far you've got the best group with what you think is the worst ammo and the largest group with the best ammo??