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M14 EBR wanted as first rifle, help/advice needed

25K views 115 replies 21 participants last post by  CitizenErased 
#1 ·
Just to give a little background i am 23 y/o (male, left handed) and dont own any guns yet. I am however getting close to purchasing. So some helpful information is always needed when it comes to noobs like myself.
I have not shot a M1A or M14 before, so i get that some off the bat will say "shoot it before you decide to buy it" and i get that...but lets skip over that part please.

I love the looks of all M14's and M1A's. I however look the look of the EBR the most. So i know that my first rifle (and maybe only rifle) i want is a M14, and my dream would be to convert it to a EBR.

First of a few questions is:

So i know the kit is drop in, so that implies you need a M1A/M14. But which do i buy? Does it matter? I would assume i should buy a really simple one that has great build quality because im going to be taking it apart anyways right? (Idk if it matters but i want to have a more mid range sniper setup. Aka long barrel and precision parts, not just some 300meters CQB rifle). I'd like the rifle to perform in the category its used in in the military, a designated marksman sniper rifle (M39). The Marine version gets out to 850yards Wiki says, that would be epic but im guessing they have top of the line grade parts, so i would be happy with 650+ yards. If this sounds wrong then again it is probably my noob assumptions or mis-readings. Feel free to correct me :)

Basically i would think it would be silly to buy a $2000 Springfield Armory M1A and then take it apart removing (and not using) basically all the things you paid for, then putting the gun parts into the EBR kit.

Second, are the EBR kits (specifically the cheek rest) ok to be used by a lefty?

Third, i hope to put a suppressor on it someday. I assume the flash hider that comes on the EBR is threaded on, so i would just need to take it off and match the thread on the barrel to a suppressor?

Well thats all i can think of right now. Sorry if any of it is super noob sounding. What it comes down to is all i really know is i want a M1A/M14 and i want it to look exactly like this (though possibly a little bit longer barrel):
 
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#2 ·
Buy a used SAI in whatever barrel length you desire. The only parts not going to be reused is the original stock, op-rod guide block and top handguard cover. The barrel is already threaded so if you want to use a suppressor you can replace the OEM flash hider or brake and thread on a muzzle device that accepts suppressors.

You could also go the build it yourself route and pick your own receiver, barrel and gas components but you may end up spending more than just buying a new rifle with warranty and building from there.

Depending on which way you go, the Sage EBR installation is simple enough to do with some proper tools. It took me about 30 minutes to convert my Scout to an EBR with the longest part involving the removal and installation of the op-rod guide block.
 
#4 ·
Thanks. What does SAI stand for? Nah i doubt i will go the build it myself route. Considering my complete lack of experience, i will be strongly considering having some do the conversion for me, let alone if i was to build a whole rifle.

850 yards? With a 22" you can go past that, my 18.5" will go to 800+ yards.

Sounds like you want a basic loaded model in a plastic stock. You'll remove the stock, op rod guide, front band and replace the flash suppressor (for future sound suppressor use) and possibly the gas lock with a GLFS setup. While it's out you may as well drop in a NM op rod spring guide...

They don't make sound suppressors with the muzzle threads of the M14 barrel so you'll need a flash suppressor or brake that's compatible with the sound suppressor you want to use. There are only four or five companies with such setups so you'll want to do your homework there. The other option is something like the Delta P Design muzzle adapter that has a front sight base and 5/8X24 threads for use with standard threaded sound suppressors.

Hope this gives you some direction.
Thanks. Wow im glad to hear about the distance of fire! Just to show off my noobness even more, i honestly dont know what the op rod guide, front band etc even are. What is a NM op rod spring guide? I do however understand that i will need a flash suppressor/hider/brake that has threading on it so you can slide a sound suppressor over it and screw it on.

Granted there are only 600 yard (meter? Idk) range(s) near i live, none longer. But i have extended family who hunt so who knows, maybe i would get to use it for the longer distance shots. Overall i just know i want it to hit out very far with (depending on the operator) great groupings. I know however that its no bolt action sniper (Rem 700) so 1 MOA at 900 yards isnt possible.
 
#3 ·
850 yards? With a 22" you can go past that, my 18.5" will go to 800+ yards.

Sounds like you want a basic loaded model in a plastic stock. You'll remove the stock, op rod guide, front band and replace the flash suppressor (for future sound suppressor use) and possibly the gas lock with a GLFS setup. While it's out you may as well drop in a NM op rod spring guide...

They don't make sound suppressors with the muzzle threads of the M14 barrel so you'll need a flash suppressor or brake that's compatible with the sound suppressor you want to use. There are only four or five companies with such setups so you'll want to do your homework there. The other option is something like the Delta P Design muzzle adapter that has a front sight base and 5/8X24 threads for use with standard threaded sound suppressors.

Hope this gives you some direction.
 
#7 ·
SAI = Springfield Armory inc.
Thanks. Ya i was thinking SA=Springfield Armory but didnt recognize the "i". Yeah that would be cool if there was, when i get it i'll have to ask around to see if there are any.

This is probably going to sound, lacking of knowledge so be ready lol:

I assume that the SAI M1A's are no only different in accessories on their website (scout/socom etc) and barrel length, but also in quality? Such as to say some of them are basic quality while others are higher end? "Match grade"? Or are they all the same base rifle but with different barrel lengths and accessories?

I ask because i see this rifle on their site (SAI Standard M1A 22" barrel) http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=MA9106-5 for $1600, which if you add the $900 for the EBR kit only comes out to $2500. Compared to the previously recommended "Loaded" version that costs $2500 on its own. (Granted you said used but i couldn't find any used for this question).

So is one better than the other in terms of quality or they are the same rifle but different barrel length /accessories?


Update: Question still applies but i did find out that the loaded is only a $100 more or so ( http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=MA9226 ). So basically my question is , is there a difference? and if so what?
 
#8 ·
I have not shot a M1A or M14 before, so i get that some off the bat will say "shoot it before you decide to buy it" and i get that...but lets skip over that part please.
I purchased my first M1A without ever having shot one and I don't regret it one bit. I did so because I appreciate the design and engineering.

So i know the kit is drop in, so that implies you need a M1A/M14. But which do i buy? Does it matter? I would assume i should buy a really simple one that has great build quality because im going to be taking it apart anyways right? (Idk if it matters but i want to have a more mid range sniper setup. Aka long barrel and precision parts, not just some 300meters CQB rifle). I'd like the rifle to perform in the category its used in in the military, a designated marksman sniper rifle (M39). The Marine version gets out to 850yards Wiki says, that would be epic but im guessing they have top of the line grade parts, so i would be happy with 650+ yards. If this sounds wrong then again it is probably my noob assumptions or mis-readings. Feel free to correct me :)

Basically i would think it would be silly to buy a $2000 Springfield Armory M1A and then take it apart removing (and not using) basically all the things you paid for, then putting the gun parts into the EBR kit.
As far as I know, there is no EBR "kit" that you can buy. The EBRs that are made for the military by Rock Island include the use of several different non-original parts. If you wanted to make a clone I think you'd have to gather the parts first and then install them on your rifle or have a gunsmith do it for you. In any case, the part you are most likely interested in is the SAGE EBR chassis (i.e.: stock).

The SAGE stock is not a drop-in installation. If you want to install the rifle in a SAGE EBR stock yourself, you will need to perform some work that falls outside the realm of normal service and you will need a couple tools you might not have (castle nut pliers, pin punch, brass/nylon hammer). Given the right tools, I am totally confident that anyone with patience and the will to learn can do it. All the information you need is available online. You don't have to be a gunsmith, but you need to understand how to use the tools and how to correctly put everything back together. I would encourage you to do it. It is a fun experience and you will gain a better understanding of your rifle.

There are only four things that are actually removed from an M1A for use in a SAGE EBR stock: the operating rod guide, the front band, the handguard and the original stock itself. So, you aren't really removing a bunch of significant parts to use an M1A in a SAGE stock. The heart of the rifle (barrel, receiver, bolt) won't change.

If you want a long range rifle you probably want a medium or heavy weight barrel. Used with a SAGE stock this will make your rifle very heavy. Unless you are jacked it will be difficult to shoot off hand. In general, the 22" barrels are better for longer ranges but I have read good things about the 18" barrels too. Tough call on that one, you will probably find lots of different opinions.

Second, are the EBR kits (specifically the cheek rest) ok to be used by a lefty?
I don't see any reason why not -- the cheek rest is ambidextrous. However, I am not left-handed and I never tried to shoot an EBR left-handed.

Third, i hope to put a suppressor on it someday. I assume the flash hider that comes on the EBR is threaded on, so i would just need to take it off and match the thread on the barrel to a suppressor?
The EBRs in use in the military use the original USGI M14 flash suppressor. They are not technically threaded on, and are not convenient for using a sound suppressor. Removing the flash suppressor is not something you'd want to do regularly -- it is a bit of a PITA. You're best bet for using a sound suppressor is to use one that will work with the SEI direct connect vortex flash suppressor. That will allow you to use the sound suppressor without removing the flash suppressor -- it just slips over it.

If you have $2000 dollars to spend you can get an LRB barreled action and be well on your way with a very high quality rifle. However, the SAGE will cost you an additional $500-$700.
 
#9 ·
I purchased my first M1A without ever having shot one and I don't regret it one bit. I did so because I appreciate the design and engineering.



As far as I know, there is no EBR "kit" that you can buy. The EBRs that are made for the military by Rock Island include the use of several different non-original parts. If you wanted to make a clone I think you'd have to gather the parts first and then install them on your rifle or have a gunsmith do it for you. In any case, the part you are most likely interested in is the SAGE EBR chassis (i.e.: stock).

The SAGE stock is not a drop-in installation. If you want to install the rifle in a SAGE EBR stock yourself, you will need to perform some work that falls outside the realm of normal service and you will need a couple tools you might not have (castle nut pliers, pin punch, brass/nylon hammer). Given the right tools, I am totally confident that anyone with patience and the will to learn can do it. All the information you need is available online. You don't have to be a gunsmith, but you need to understand how to use the tools and how to correctly put everything back together. I would encourage you to do it. It is a fun experience and you will gain a better understanding of your rifle.

There are only four things that are actually removed from an M1A for use in a SAGE EBR stock: the operating rod guide, the front band, the handguard and the original stock itself. So, you aren't really removing a bunch of significant parts to use an M1A in a SAGE stock. The heart of the rifle (barrel, receiver, bolt) won't change.

If you want a long range rifle you probably want a medium or heavy weight barrel. Used with a SAGE stock this will make your rifle very heavy. Unless you are jacked it will be difficult to shoot off hand. In general, the 22" barrels are better for longer ranges but I have read good things about the 18" barrels too. Tough call on that one, you will probably find lots of different opinions.



I don't see any reason why not -- the cheek rest is ambidextrous. However, I am not left-handed and I never tried to shoot an EBR left-handed.



The EBRs in use in the military use the original USGI M14 flash suppressor. They are not technically threaded on, and are not convenient for using a sound suppressor. Removing the flash suppressor is not something you'd want to do regularly -- it is a bit of a PITA. You're best bet for using a sound suppressor is to use one that will work with the SEI direct connect vortex flash suppressor. That will allow you to use the sound suppressor without removing the flash suppressor -- it just slips over it.

If you have $2000 dollars to spend you can get an LRB barreled action and be well on your way with a very high quality rifle. However, the SAGE will cost you an additional $500-$700.
Yeah i am guessing what i would be getting is the SAGE stock. Do you think thats whats in the picture?

As for medium/heavy barrel, i totally understand that. Though on the Navy SEAL EBR page it says it cant be used with a heavy barrel, have any of you heard that before?

Yeah currently in my mind is the argument of 18inch vs 22inch. From what has been said in this thread about the posters 18.5 inch going 800+ yards... i dont know if i need a 22inch. However i dont see weight being a HUUUGE issue in the sense that most shooting will be at a range on a bipod, with once or twice being outside carrying it. But i think if i was to shoot it while outside (hunting or w/e) i would go prone anyways.

Is the SEI direct connect vortex flash suppressor whats on the M1A that you buy from SAI? Or its a third party part?
As for the LRB barreled action, i dont think i will need to be that extreme or pricey. I think it will be enough of a stretch just getting a $1600 M1A then the SAGE for $600.
 
#10 ·
The standard Sage chassis with the 5 screw top rail will work with a standard or medium weight barrel. The NSG Sage Clyde Armory offers has the 5 screw top rail, otherwise you'll want to specify it when you order. he standard top rail has 6 screws and only works with standard weight barrels.

Sage has recently introduced a chassis just for heavy weight barrels, it will not work with standard or medium weight barrels.

There's very little I could do with my previous 22" barrel that I can't do with my 18.5" barrel... what I can't do with a 22" barrel that I can with an 18.5" barrel is use a Pelican 1720 case and Eagle HSRC 44" drag bag. And the Pelican 1720 fits diagonally in my car's luggage compartment with both seats up which is something my Pelican 1750 will never do.
 
#11 ·
Oh well i dont know much about standard/medium/heavy barrels and which i will choose. All i really know is when you shoot certain ammo, want to reach out to certain distances, or shoot a lot of rounds in secession you want more than standard.

Wow, that really makes me lean 99% towards just getting a 18 inch barrel. If theres relatively no advantages in terms of accuracy or distance of shot then i see no reason to get the 22".
I still overall dont feel i have a full grasp of what i would order when i am going to buy, but i feel like i am a bit closer. I know i want my M1A to look exactly like that picture. Down to even the rail the scope is on (which from the looks of it, the SAGE doesnt come with). I know i want to reach 800+yards, so either 18" or 22" barrel, i dont know if i'd need standard/medium or heavy barrel, i still dont know if SAI M1A's are all built the same or if theres different quality levels so i dont know which gun i would buy to then switch out the stock for the SAGE stock.
 
#12 ·
M1a is not the best rifle for a lefty. Going big on your first gun! My first was a bolt action .22
 
#14 ·
Interesting, from posts here and other threads on this forum, it sure seems not only do owners (leftys) love it, but most proclaim its so great for lefties its like it was made for lefties. Haha yeah, well being a lefty means guns (like .22's and .17HMR's) that i can shoot are not only rare, but the left handed versions are always lame and wood (which i hate). And with prices being equal to that of a Remington 700 .308 i just dont see the point.
I just figure its better to own the 2 guns you love and cant live without (for me its the M1A EBR and the 1911 .45) than 8 guns you "like" and have accumulated over the years and not own the 2 expensive guns you love and always wanted.
 
#18 ·
Sweet, your lucky. I plan on getting those 2 first, and if i get a third gun it will most likely be another rifle. (More specifically a Rem 700 or similar bolt gun).

I guess the M-1a is nice because the safety is easily accessable lefty. So is the charging handle. I just wouldn't care for that big piece of metal moving that close to my face.
What big piece of metal are you referring too? (again noob). From previous posts on this forum the consensus is that the cases eject away at 2 o'clock, and if they dont for your gun (or whatever) get the accessory that the cases will hit so they dump to the ground or forward.

In the services the majority of M-14s have pretty much been left in somewhat "standard" configuration. Read: wood or fiberglass GI stocks. While alot that are pressed into service for DMR use do sport laced on cheek rest and scopes. However of those that I have personnally seen most of them use whatever scope mount is lying around and whatever cheek piece the DMR himself buys off the 'net. Saw two that used duct tap and foam for a cheek rest... not kidding. It's been awhile since I visited a FOB so take this with a grain of salt.

Of those that have been modified into for lack of a better term to an "EBR" whether thats an MK-14 mod 1 and 2, M39... Alot of this is "non-standard" as in alot of differences between units. The Coast Guard and Marines probably have the most standardization as far as configuration of the weapon. The rest differ in minute ways between the years and just who assembled the rifle.

The army version as previously stated sticks with the USGI flash hider.
The Marines M39 uses the USGI flash hider as well with some exceptions.
The MK-14s are a mash up:
MOD 0's use the USGI flash hider. Guns that are set up for suppressor use employ a Smith enterprise vortex flash hider and a fisher/sei QD suppressor. A few older guns have a sleeve/collar with 2 port brake and QD suppressor from OPS Inc.
MOD 1's use a surefire flash hider and QD Suppressor.
Yeah i have read the pretty long Wiki's on the M39 and MOD 1 and MOD 0 etc. All i know for SURE is that i want my M1A EBR to look exactly like in the picture. Except i think i want a rail where the scope is attached (iv noticed some other M1A EBR's have it) and a flash suppressor that can have a Suppressor attached on it. 18 inch barrel probably and (it looks like it is in the picture) a medium heavy barrel.
 
#16 ·
I guess the M-1a is nice because the safety is easily accessable lefty. So is the charging handle. I just wouldn't care for that big piece of metal moving that close to my face.
 
#17 ·
In the services the majority of M-14s have pretty much been left in somewhat "standard" configuration. Read: wood or fiberglass GI stocks. While alot that are pressed into service for DMR use do sport laced on cheek rest and scopes. However of those that I have personnally seen most of them use whatever scope mount is lying around and whatever cheek piece the DMR himself buys off the 'net. Saw two that used duct tap and foam for a cheek rest... not kidding. It's been awhile since I visited a FOB so take this with a grain of salt.

Of those that have been modified into for lack of a better term to an "EBR" whether thats an MK-14 mod 1 and 2, M39... Alot of this is "non-standard" as in alot of differences between units. The Coast Guard and Marines probably have the most standardization as far as configuration of the weapon. The rest differ in minute ways between the years and just who assembled the rifle.

The army version as previously stated sticks with the USGI flash hider.
The Marines M39 uses the USGI flash hider as well with some exceptions.
The MK-14s are a mash up:
MOD 0's use the USGI flash hider. Guns that are set up for suppressor use employ a Smith enterprise vortex flash hider and a fisher/sei QD suppressor. A few older guns have a sleeve/collar with 2 port brake and QD suppressor from OPS Inc.
MOD 1's use a surefire flash hider and QD Suppressor.

Another thing to consider is this... Almost all 7.62mm rifles currently being fielded are considered interim weapons. For example the marine corps identified a need for a DMR rifle in the 90's. They came up with a decent rifle in a mcmillan m2a stock. These were traded 1 for 1 with the M39. The M39 is being traded in 1 for 1 with the MK-11. The MK-11 is already being superseded by the M110. The long term goal for the DOD is to standardize on the M-110 with SOCOM standardizing on a variant of the SCAR-H. All this Mk-14, M39, MK-11 stuff is something the DOD is spending a cost effective amount of money on to field a low maintenance 7.62mm rifle platform until production of the M-110 and the SCAR-H gets up to speed...
 
#19 ·
CNelson, not trying to contradict you, but... All the wood and fiberglass M-14s are out of the picture. The Army made enormous progress getting the EBR builds to all units in theater. I haven't seen a unit in a couple years that didn't have them.
 
#22 ·
Perhaps in the Active Duty components of the Army itself, which is a good thing... I'm a squid tho...

2. Does anyone have a link to that flash hider that was recommended to me that is popular and can have a suppressor slide over it? I have no idea where (online retailers) to look.[/B]
http://www.surefire.com/Suppressor_Adapters

http://www.smithenterprise.com/products03.02.html

http://www.advanced-armament.com/default.aspx?pageId=4

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/HVT-THD-10p91.htm

and there are others...
 
#20 ·
OP, I was talking about the op rod/charging handle. It's reciprocating, which means it moves every time the rifle cycles.
 
#21 ·
Oh yeah, sorry i mentally was thinking it was on both sides, but ya your right its only on the right side.
I guess thats just something iv made peace with, being a lefty and wanting to own guns and shoot them.
Hence the death rate of lefties using things that are made for righties.

So to update, the questions still pending are:

1. Is there a difference between the rifles like the Standard M1A (SAI) and the Loaded/SOCOM etc? And by difference i mean the parts (trigger, receiver etc) that i will be using in the EBR stock. Quality of build etc.

2. Does anyone have a link to that flash hider that was recommended to me that is popular and can have a suppressor slide over it? I have no idea where (online retailers) to look.
 
#23 ·
Not to offend, but I'd suggest a lot of reading on M1A/M14. You might want to start checking out gunbroker and other internet auction sites on the price of the gun and accessories. More "homework" could save you big bucks and get your dream gun into your hands a lot sooner.

I've had an M1A for a lot of years...it sat in the safe when I developed other interests (and didn't need it for coyotes/feral dogs harassing the calves...no cattle.) I renewed the interest and got a SMOKIN' DEAL on a SQUAD SCOUT with a 7000 series AIMPOINT because it was a "niche item" with limited appeal to a lot of shooters. As you become more knowledgeable about what you want...and prices!...you might run into a similar bargain.

I'd also suggest that you contact various shooting ranges in your area and see if they rent guns AND if they have an M1A rental gun. The price of ammo may be a bit traumatic, but reloading is another topic of discussion. One of the reasons I got dis-interested in the M1A was the error of thinking that I couldn't use anything but jacketed ammo in it. Go over to castboolits.gunloads and read up on using lead bullets with gas checks.

You'll find that this is one of those projects that expands into a lot of different areas. I'm 63 and have been reloading for 40+ years. It's a d*** poor day I don't learn something new on one of the forums I visit regularly!
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the links! I will definitely be coming back to those when i am about to buy the rifle.

No i completely agree, this whole thread is about me getting more information on something i know very little about. Got any "reading" suggestions? I totally get what your saying, i am into tech (like building a PC) and as i have learned more about the items, and pricing and places to buy it (or get used), i have saved money and built better items. But one big thing that helped was a tech forum that im a member of. And now im a member of this M14 forum starting today, so i figure from this thread and ones like it, i will learn about prices from you guys, i will learn about whats worth buying used, about what parts/accessories to get or not etc.

Right now i know very little, hell i know so little that i have no idea what a AIMPOINT 7000 is. I know the basics if that. What i know about the M1A/M14 i know from wikipedias articles on the M39/EBR/Navy SEAL version etc. Besides that i dont know anything.
So far from what i have gathered here on this thread, is if i want a EBR like in the picture, i should buy a 18" or 22" Springfield Armory M1A (used or new) and then the EBR stock.
However i still have un answered questions (a few posts above this one) about if it matters what specific model i get etc.
 
#26 ·
Scout M1A's run between $1400 to $1800 depending on what kind of deal you get.
Sage chassis is around $700.
NM spring guides are about $45.
Trigger tuning is about $50.
Sage DCSB is about $200 I think (could be very wrong on that).
SEI GLFS is about $45 or so.
Muzzle device will range from about $75 to $150 depending on what you choose.
Front sight will run $20 to $80 depending on what you get.
Rings can be from $50 to $500.
Scope can run from $100 to $5000+.
 
#29 ·
Spring guide is the rod the op rod spring goes around. Standard ones are flat, match ones are round or rounded squares to take the kinks out of the spring and let the action move more smoothly.

DCSB is the Sage Detachable Cantilever Scope Base. It's a good rail platform for adding a scope.

GLFS is SEI's (Smith Enterprise Inc.) Gas Lock Front Sight. There is the standard GLFS with ghost ring style front sight and there is the GLFS dovetail which takes standard M14 front sights. The GLFS dovetail comes in two heights for either 22" or 18"/18.5" barrels. Personally I prefer the GLFS dovetail since you can drift the sight for windage zero as well as run a larger variety of front sights to suit your wants/needs.

Rings are what hold the scope to the rail. They may not seem like much, but decent quality rings can make a big difference. And just because they say "Extreme" or "Tactical" doesn't mean they're decent quality. In fact I've found it to be quite the opposite.
 
#30 ·
DCSB is the Sage Detachable Cantilever Scope Base. It's a good rail platform for adding a scope.
Ah, oops GI1

If this is what I think it is, and interfaces with a picatinny rail, it's worth noting that it will still require a SCSB in order to bridge the area between the stripper clip base and the SAGE forward rail.
 
#32 ·
Buying a built ebr from fulton may be your best bet, no assembly, no previous owners, just what you want built the way you want it.
 
#36 ·
Yeah i saw those before and thought they looked perfect but i didnt look that hard because i know nothing about the company (or most companies for that matter). What is the general opinion on them? Great build quality? Great rifles? All thoughts/opinions wanted.

FWIW, I just received my LRB build with an 18.5" medium weight Criterion chrome-lined barrel and really like the feel. It is notably a tad heavier than the standard Scout BUT the weight is in the right place. Feels great.
Thats awesome to hear. What made you decide to get a medium weight barrel? All i know about barrel thickness/weight is what iv heard, so feel free to school me on the reasons you'd want a medium/ or heavy weight barrel.

And just curious, you say you just got your LRB build, does that mean you bought everything at LRB and they put it together for you? And when you recieved it, it was a completely done fireable rifle?

M3rc Nate-

I was in your position a few years ago, same age same story ( first rifle not first firearm though...).. I think you made a good decision with choosing the m1a as your first choice, why buy a rifle that you dont want, or that you dont want as much as an m1a? My only suggestion is to take it slow and get used to the platform first before adding the addittional expense and commitment of the SAGE, while the sage is awesome and a great way to utilize our beloved rifle it is still rather pricey for a youngn like us to swing a rifle upwards of 1.5k and then the stock...

just my .02 good luck, please post pics and welcome to the forum
I totally get what your saying. It might sound like im rushing or wanting all the info to make a buy list and buy it all at once, but that is definitely not the case. Unless i buy a prebuilt EBR like the fulton, or parts to have a EBR built, i will be getting a regular M1A and will most definitely get acquainted with it by shooting it and using it. Couldnt agree more, its why the price isnt a huge turn off for me, because i can see this being the only rifle i own, and it being exactly how i want it to be. Why buy own 4 cars before you own your dream car, should have just saved for a while by taking the bus and bought your dream car first and never need to buy another car again. Thats my logic. Though it doesnt work for everyone.
 
#34 ·
M3rc Nate-

I was in your position a few years ago, same age same story ( first rifle not first firearm though...).. I think you made a good decision with choosing the m1a as your first choice, why buy a rifle that you dont want, or that you dont want as much as an m1a? My only suggestion is to take it slow and get used to the platform first before adding the addittional expense and commitment of the SAGE, while the sage is awesome and a great way to utilize our beloved rifle it is still rather pricey for a youngn like us to swing a rifle upwards of 1.5k and then the stock...

just my .02 good luck, please post pics and welcome to the forum
 
#39 ·
With the SAI lifetime warranty, it probably wouldn't cover all the aftermarket parts you intend on using. So, it will probably only cover the SAI parts, which would most likely end up only being the receiver in the end. You probably won't wear out a receiver in your lifetime, so that reduces the effective coverage to manufacturing defects and what amounts to a defect is basically up to SAI. With the LRB there will be less chance for defects, and the LRB is warranted for 1 year.

I don't know anything about Fulton rifles, so I can't give you any opinions there.

Gunbroker, or other auction sites are good places to look. As is the PX here on the forum. I have seen some excellent deals there on complete rifles. I recommend watching the PX and auction sites for a couple months to get a feel for the market. Then, you will know what is a reasonable price, and will be better able to spot a deal when you see it.
 
#40 ·
LRB can build it how you want it including dropping it into a Sage.

You would have to shave a little off the top rail for an M25 setup, not a big deal to me, but for some they freak out about it. I have a modified extended rail so I had to shave a little more than if I had the standard rail.

The DCSB mounts onto the top rail and fits into the standard clip guide. You don't need the SCSB to use it, in fact it won't work with it.

SA Inc's lifetime warranty only covers their parts. You start changing things and it may or may not void the warranty (at their discretion). A lot of people complain about LRB's warranty... it's really just a self preservation thing. If you buy an LRB rifle and have a legitimate problem that you didn't cause, LRB will usually take care of you, even if it's years after you bought the rifle.

Fulton makes good rifles, but after sale customer service drops off the face of the earth. If you have a problem, be ready for an $80 tech inspection fee and to be told you're the problem cause their rifle/parts are made by Jesus himself on God's workbench with the Holy Spirit blessing each part and can't have any problems.

I'm running a Krieger 18.5" medium weight barrel, in the Mod 1 chassis it's a bit nose heavy so I'll be changing to a standard weight 18.5" barrel later. However, in the Mod 0 chassis the heavier rear end balances the medium weight barrel nicely.

You can dump a load of cash into these rifles really quick. However you could have a great rifle built for $3000. LRB barreled action #3 would be about $2000 with no hand guard and front band, Sage is $700, trigger group about $250, $50 for shipping... done.

Just a quick note, LRB didn't build my rifle, but I've handled some rifles they have built and their work is top notch.
 
#41 ·
Oh wow thats awesome (LBR building it anyway you want). Even though the price would be right at the line of what i can mentally accept paying, what your getting for that $3K being top of the line is sure a good incentive.

Oh thanks for the correction on the Stripper clip information. As for the M25 rail shaving, i dont think it will apply because i dont see any reason someone would get the M25 receiver if they are going to be putting a DCSM there anyways.

Yeah what you are saying definitely makes sense in regards to the SAI warranty vs LRB support. Haha that just adds to why i wouldnt buy Fulton, their rifles being $3000+ being the other reason.

So why did you choose a medium weight to begin with? Im curious because i still havent been told the reasons for choosing one over the other. Purpose of use? Distance you want to reach out too? Succession of shots? I assume these are the factors that go into if you are going to get a standard/medium/heavy barrel.

You mention MOD 1 and MOD 2, all i have seen are the standard EBR stock which i want ( http://www.impactguns.com/sage-m14-tactical-stock-m14alcs.aspx ) the Navy SEAL version ( http://clydearmory.com/sage-navy-seal-grey-ebr-stock.html ) and a tan version ( http://www.impactguns.com/sage-m14-tactical-stock-coyote-tan-m14alcscoyotetan.aspx ) but they just look like different colors.
Then theres the 3 different ones of the SAGE site ( http://sageinternationalltd.com/si/access/ebr.html ) but those all look the same except the buttstocks are different styles.
What am i missing?
 
#43 · (Edited)
Mod 0: The most familiar EBR stock. Black or gray. Most have the adjustable cheek rest skeleton stock. Prototype and early production rifles are identified by longer forearm ending near the old front band spot. Also some (all?) of the early ones have fewer milling spots to reduce weight. Early military contract and production "chop mod" stocks have a plastic pistol grip similar to the one on M-4 rifles. Mod 0 stocks have a large one piece kyde handguard, shorter rails, and most have the 6 hole top rail. Later production models have a rubber pistol grip. This is the version that the Navy adopted first, the Air Force uses, and the Army uses for SDM rifle builds. The USMC's M39 EMR uses the Mod 0 as well. Some versions have a M-4 style stock or a solid traditional rifle stock.

Mod 1: Next generation EBR stock adopted by Naval Special Warfare. Military contract build stocks have a gray color. Civilian models are usually tan. Factory stock is a Magpul CTR with cheek riser on an AR-15 style collapsing tube. The handguard is tan two piece kydex to allow the bottom rail to go all the way back. Also has longer side rails. Has more milling to reduce weight further. Military contract rifles shipped with Tango Down bipod, Mk. 46 vertical grip, and rail covers.

Mod 2: New build by Sage for NSW. Basically a Mod 0 chassis with a new stock similar to the PSG-1. Adjusts for length of pull, cheek height, and sits lower than the other two stocks. It's essentially the precision rifle version.
 
#44 · (Edited)
#46 ·
Yeah, about that... I don't think its going to happen... Especially since the MK-17 has reached milestone C and its SSR variant has been approved for funding. So why would they spend MORE money now on the MK 14 MOD 2 when the SR-25 and MK-11's are already in the inventory and the ultimate replacement is already funded into low rate production?
 
#45 ·
Mine is the tan Mod 1.

Heavier weight barrels are typically more accurate since they flex less. The weight helps reduce felt recoil and muzzle rise. The increased metal helps cool the barrel faster.

I went medium weight since I've had a heavy weight and don't ever plan to again. Too heavy too carry.
 
#47 ·
Awesome. Thanks for the barrel info. I think (again, assumptions) i will want the medium, im strong and big so i can lug around w/e. And like i have said before, this will be a range rifle, and occasionally (like hopefully a few times a year) a hunting/outdoors rifle. So its not like i will being carrying it at long lengths of time while trying to run or anything.


Yeah, about that... I don't think its going to happen... Especially since the MK-17 has reached milestone C and its SSR variant has been approved for funding. So why would they spend MORE money now on the MK 14 MOD 2 when the SR-25 and MK-11's are already in the inventory and the ultimate replacement is already funded into low rate production?
So what your saying is, the MOD 2 that is aimed more to be a sniper than previous builds "battle rifles" styling, probably wont start getting mass produced like the MOD 0/1 because of the SCAR reaching milestone C (no idea what that means)? I do get overall what you are saying, if they are using the SCAR's sniper variant as Designated marksman rifle now, and the MK110/SR25 as the spotters backup sniper (again replacing the M14) then why would they ramp up another version of the M14? I get it.
 
#48 ·
The cool thing about the Sage is the main chassis part is the same, they just change out the rear end for the different "Mods". Mod 0 has their rear end. Mod 1 has the AR extension tube and grip rear end. Mod 2 has the PRS2 rear end. Then there's the CA legal rear end.

The only time the chassis changes is when you go to a heavy weight barrel.

Personally, I'd go with the gray chassis, but then again I'm in So. CA and hate black rifles after they sit in the sun for a little bit.
 
#49 ·
Very good info, thank you. So i assume (but hope im wrong), you cant change your stock (by stock i mean butt stock) once you choose a certain one?
For example i want the M14 in the picture (first post), with that stock. But it would be cool to own and use the butt stock thats in that MOD 2 sniper (exactly like in the link), or the M4 style adjustable stock.
Lol i kinda 99% know you cant cause then what would be the point of selling three different stocks and the only difference being their butt stocks. Oh well. :/ sucks cause i love the skeleton stock most, but i wish i could swap it out for the MOD 1 or 2 style when i wanted.

As for color, i get what your saying, if i lived in So Cal i would definitely go grey or tan , i like the tan more than grey i think. But i live in rainy overcast Western WA and all black looks badass to me.
 
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