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Trigger Shoe

This is a discussion on Trigger Shoe within the Modern M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Contrary to opinions, I shoot trigger shoe's on all my bullseye 1911's with no issues. Thousands of rounds through them. The 1911 has a narrow ...


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Old June 28th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #16
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Contrary to opinions, I shoot trigger shoe's on all my bullseye 1911's with no issues.
Thousands of rounds through them.
The 1911 has a narrow trigger so the shoe offers much better feel to me.

All things are different but since a 1911 has a grip safety I don't know how a trigger shoe affect safety (accidental discharge) for that particular pistol.

I have a shoe on a Glen Nelson built M1A from 1982. Came that way when I found it. It already has a real trigger job as it breaks crisp at about 4.5 lbs so I am assuming that it is for feel.

All depends on what you like.

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Old June 28th, 2011, 04:35 PM   #17
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I have a Garand that I did a trigger job on.
I actually removed some of the trigger to make it thinner and straighter.
Between the new shape of the trigger and a cut I made in the trigger guard I can pull up all of the slack and fit the edge of my finger in the grove and make the last 1 /16th of pull after I am "set".
It's a dangerous trigger if you aren't used to it, but it works well for me.

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Old June 28th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #18
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It's all about correcting the geometry on a trigger group designed for use in a traditional stock in such a way that allows it to perform most excellently with pistol grip stocks.
The M14HDW.US EBR shoe also gives your trigger finger a wider surface area to rest on without poking your finger tip.

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Old June 29th, 2011, 07:25 AM   #19
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot armory 308 View Post
In the case of the M-14 the trigger shoe is not intended as a ''poor mans trigger job''. It is intended to change the shape of the trigger for use with an EBR stock. The Garand designed trigger was not designed to be pulled straight back like the AR. The straight back pull with the EBR stocks causes the trigger finger to contact the lower tip of the trigger which is not comfortable and make it feel awkward. The trigger shoe makes a BIG difference in the feel of the trigger, Like i said its a must have for an EBR stock.

Why not simply make a new trigger? Seems all the trouble it takes to design a functional shoe to change the geometry could possibly be better directed toward a new trigger?

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Old June 29th, 2011, 09:26 AM   #20
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New trigger

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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
Why not simply make a new trigger? Seems all the trouble it takes to design a functional shoe to change the geometry could possibly be better directed toward a new trigger?
I'm thinking the same thing and wondering why nobody has offered one yet. Not that the set screw mounted trigger shoe is a bad idea. It's a simple and affordable solution to the trigger geometry issue although a new trigger would certainly be “cleaner”. Just wondering why nobody has taken the plunge when such a large market seems to exist.

Anybody?

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Old June 29th, 2011, 09:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
Why not simply make a new trigger? Seems all the trouble it takes to design a functional shoe to change the geometry could possibly be better directed toward a new trigger?
I see what you are saying, but...

All the time and work needed to design a functional shoe that corrects
the geometry is complete and the trigger shoes are a production item.

Why go through all the time, trouble and money to design a brand new trigger?

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Old June 29th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #22
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Incomplete thoughts on my part...

Keep in mind that I once used a type of trigger shoe too... a tiny spring steel clip that snapped over the trigger, putting a small bump on it to aid in fingertip location, this being on an Anchutz 1407 having a second stage trigger pull of about 2.5 ounces.

Trigger shoes are by their very nature susceptable to failure, being a small part bolted onto another small part.

Yes, the change tactile imput to the trigger finger, and can change the aspect of the trigger's angle relative to the normal angle of the index finger as it squeezes the trigger.

What it can't change is the actual geometry of the trigger... that being one which is substantially rearward of its pivot point, designed to be pulled by a hand on a traditionally-stocked rifle (hand higher than the trigger). What I'm saying is that a shoe doesn't actually change the direction of pull. It is still upward. No amount of propaganda crowing about the exhaustive research or countless hours of CNC work and attantion to detail will change that, but it might and probably will change the thinking of many customers, mostly who will believe just about anything so long as it is slickly designed.

Not trying to be combative, or put any products down, but a shoe is just lipstick. If you want to make the aspect of the trigger more appropriate to an EBR or Sage or E2 or any pistol grip-equipped stock, then the trigger should be rebuilt, to be in line with or more forward of its pivot point, angling downward the optimum direction of pull.

But... if you want to use a shoe on a rifle to make yourself a better shooter, go right ahead.

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Old June 29th, 2011, 10:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
...the trigger should be rebuilt, to be in line with or more forward of its pivot point, angling downward the optimum direction of pull.
I'll borrow some of your words to make this point:

When compared to the bolt-on EBR trigger shoe, no amount of propaganda crowing about the exhaustive research or countless hours of CNC work and attention to detail will change the high cost of developing a new trigger that is not nearly as simple to install as the EBR trigger shoe is.

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Old June 29th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
I'll borrow some of your words to make this point:

When compared to the bolt-on EBR trigger shoe, no amount of propaganda crowing about the exhaustive research or countless hours of CNC work and attention to detail will change the high cost of developing a new trigger that is not nearly as simple to install as the EBR trigger shoe is.

LOL you've gotta be kidding me....

you claim that changing a TRIGGER is somehow hard? And for that reason it is better to have a trigger shoe?

I'll have to agree to disagree.

Hope your product does well. Really do. I wish I had a product to sell in these days.

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Old June 29th, 2011, 12:30 PM   #25
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Is swapping out a trigger as easy as bolting on a trigger shoe?


You are fooling yourself if you think it is.

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Old June 29th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #26
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Wouldn't you essentially need to redesign the entire trigger group?

I know... let's redesign the Sage. No joke here, drop in an AR trigger and an M14 mag release built into the stock, I like Geissele triggers myself. Then add the JAE type lug slides to pull the receiver into the stock and hold it. The trigger group is already a separate entity that has to work with the receiver, how hard could this be?

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Old June 29th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExpert View Post
Wouldn't you essentially need to redesign the entire trigger group?

I know... let's redesign the Sage. No joke here, drop in an AR trigger and an M14 mag release built into the stock, I like Geissele triggers myself. Then add the JAE type lug slides to pull the receiver into the stock and hold it. The trigger group is already a separate entity that has to work with the receiver, how hard could this be?
NE, C'mon now, have you been drinking the kool aid again?

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Old June 29th, 2011, 08:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot armory 308 View Post
NE, C'mon now, have you been drinking the kool aid again?
LOL, kool aid doesn't cause that, I'm pretty sure it's from huffing and dusting. At least my idea makes sense and doesn't involve unobtainium or any changes to the barreled action. Just a change to the Sage and parts already available, would probably make it lighter for all the little girls too.

EDIT- would need special trigger pins and safety as well as some new trigger guard design. Okay, I admit it was harebrained...

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Old July 6th, 2011, 06:16 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
The EBR trigger shoe I am bringing to market is designed specifically for the M14 EBR with a pistol grip, it is not made by T-Grip.

The all steel, 2nd generation V2 EBR trigger shoes are made with the correct angle and radius (geometry) needed with a pistol grip.
It is designed specifically for use with the SAGE EBR chassis, but it should benefit other M14 stocks equipped with pistol grips.

Here is a picture of one of the prototype shoes I am currently using.









.

I should receive the first shipment of M14HDW EBR trigger shoes by July 8th.

I will post pictures, the price and terms on my web site.
I will contact everybody on the waiting list individually and fill those orders first.

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Old July 6th, 2011, 02:27 PM   #30
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Cool

It's official!

With one aesthetic exception, the exact same trigger shoe will be used on all
CRANE MK14 Mod 2 rifles - the lone exception, theirs will not be marked M14HDW.US

I guess it's safe to say my EBR trigger shoes are mil-spec

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