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No Vertical Takeoff for Russia

This is a discussion on No Vertical Takeoff for Russia within the Military History forums, part of the Armed Services category; Originally Posted by Mike7.62 I wouldn't be too concerned about Naval Air by either the Russians or the Chinese. Each have one jump jet type ...


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Old January 24th, 2017, 06:51 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mike7.62 View Post
I wouldn't be too concerned about Naval Air by either the Russians or the Chinese. Each have one jump jet type carrier, and judging by the video of the launch's that I saw, they can't carry much when they do make it off the deck. Sure as heck not as much as the Super Hornet or the old A-6.

Wish they still had something that can carry the bomb load of the old Intruder. IMO, the carrier kind of lost it's punch when they retired it. The Super comes close, but doesn't go as far.

There was a huge and expensive learning curve for the US Navy and its carrier operations. We have come close to perfecting it. The Russians and the Chinese have a very long way to go to before their carrier ops are anywhere near as good as ours. A very long way.
Modern air superiority tactics and mission planning has eliminated the need for planes like the A6 Intruder and the F-14D Tomcat which could go into a fighter mode where necessary. We just use the B-52 if we don't care if they see it coming (we just fly over their operational ceiling / escort the bomber with the F-18 or F-22 to eliminate any threats), or we use the B2 Spirit if we want to scare the bejebus out of them in having no clue where the carpet bombing just came from (like we just did in Libya last week).

We really do have a significant superiority over any organized armed force in the world... and that isn't even including our recon / combat drone technology which has actually made theater operations easier to engage with reduced loss of life. Reduction in numbers, reduction in expenditures, etc. I do not see as quite as much of a problem as the panic crowd in Washington - because we are investing it BETTER, SMARTER, and more efficiently in advanced technologies (like drone-tech) that give us the ability to conduct warfare in ways no country stuck in the 1990s, let alone stuck in the 17th century with a few AKs, RPGs, and C4, can contest with.

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Old January 24th, 2017, 07:49 AM   #17
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Hubris has been our national Achilles Heel since winning WW2.

When I hear "just fly over their operational ceiling," I cast my mind back to Gary Powers.

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Old January 24th, 2017, 08:11 AM   #18
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Hubris has been our national Achilles Heel since winning WW2.

When I hear "just fly over their operational ceiling," I cast my mind back to Gary Powers.
I didn't say "with no support"...
I would never suggest we sent in a B-52 w/o support in the modern day. The B2, yeah let that BMF do what she was designed to do all by her lonesome,.. but not our B-52s. Sure the DPRK may have Mig 29s that can hit 60k ft, but I'd dare any wing of their pilots to go toe to toe against any wing of ours in an F/A-18e, let alone a wing of F-22s defending a B-52 on its way to level Sunchon airfield.

There is hubris, then there is flat out superiority: in tech, in training, in person. I have faith in our armed forces' tech, in their training, in their loadout, in their passion if anyone ever threatens this nation. And the moment our standing armed forces seems like it might not have the numbers - I have faith our citizenry will step up and motivate accordingly.

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Old January 24th, 2017, 08:32 AM   #19
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Don't get me wrong, I subscribe to the idea of "American Exceptionalism." We are the best, because we work for it and it matters to us.

I also am loath to under-estimate any foe. Hubris causes complacency. Complacency causes defeat.

Just sayin'.

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Old January 24th, 2017, 09:05 AM   #20
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AH... That I concur with Pennamite.
This is where I believe an increase in expenditures in INTELLIGENCE should outweigh any rash / quick / unnecessary increase in expenditures towards tanks #s, ship #s, sub #s, etc. just as a "show of force"... intelligence, clandestine or otherwise, to know as much as possible about both enemies and potential enemies, in this day and age significantly outweighs sheer #s of planes or boats we can lob towards an enemy.

I'd rather know through intense intelligence infiltration that in the DPRK there is a solid contingent of highest ranking generals & officials that would coup d'etat prepared to relinquish power in favor of a transition to democratization like South Korea should someone help them facilitate the swift, sudden, and complete elimination of Kim Jong family line and its key facilitators, than simply start sending battle groups of our latest Zumwalt class ships towards their shores in a show of force. I'd rather know through deep penetration clandestine intelligence we have evidence of associations with drug dealers, illegal arms trades, etc. that could topple Vladamir Putin & his oligarchy cronies if we put it in the hands of enough direct political opponent law enforcement, military, prosecutors and State Duma / Federation Council that cannot be simply "disappeared" without stoking the fires of a new revolution without ever having to show off our "Next Gen" battle tank anywhere but on Wikipedia instead of parked on the Poland side of the border. I'd rather know that through the intelligence community we can hack ISIS and start disrupting their propaganda broadcasts, tweets, and such without having to send in one new set of boots in the sand, even if they have the latest deployed Modular Handgun System, Beretta ARX100 battle rifle, and carbon tube crosshatched fiberous soft body armor.

The intelligence community has more of a place than ever in modern warfare - PRE-warefare really. Moreso than it did in the cold war IMO.

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Old February 1st, 2017, 12:14 PM   #21
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Russians are producing some scary jets:


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