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January 25th, 2012, 09:12 AM
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#16 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 495
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You have ROE in every modern conflict and its OK, as long as they apply for both sides. When fighting against insurgents in an asymmetric war you have to calculate the risk of collateral damage very carefully. This lieutenant made an acceptable military decision on the base of his available knowledge. This decision should be backed by his commander. I have learned, that there are no right or wrong decisions in a battle environment, only more ore less appropriate ones. He probably saved a lot of lives. And damaging a tractor?? My god, are we running out of real problems over there?
Wolf
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January 25th, 2012, 10:05 AM
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#17 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas
Posts: 1,521
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Originally Posted by bigbang  You have ROE in every modern conflict and its OK, as long as they apply for both sides. When fighting against insurgents in an asymmetric war you have to calculate the risk of collateral damage very carefully. This lieutenant made an acceptable military decision on the base of his available knowledge. This decision should be backed by his commander. I have learned, that there are no right or wrong decisions in a battle environment, only more ore less appropriate ones. He probably saved a lot of lives. And damaging a tractor?? My god, are we running out of real problems over there?
Wolf | Oberst, I agree. Lets make war, or dont.
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January 25th, 2012, 08:51 PM
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#18 |
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mercer, Pennsylvania
Posts: 127
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Thank God they didnt urinate on the dead tractor.
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January 25th, 2012, 09:20 PM
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#19 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 495
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Originally Posted by lpnracer Thank God they didnt urinate on the dead tractor. | You can draw a line between those urinating Marines and the 1stLt. There probably was the order from a higher command to do some image enhancing actions for the press and the pederast president Karsai.
Wolf
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January 26th, 2012, 10:37 AM
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#20 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: chicago
Posts: 57
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Duh he shot a tractor with a 7.62mm. I would have called arty down on it with HE and airbursts and got them all. Don't care how old the combatants are if you want to play ok we play but don't get bent when we bring the damdam down on ya.
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January 26th, 2012, 10:51 AM
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#21 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas
Posts: 1,521
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Blackjack Pershing would have a think or two to say about this!! 
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February 4th, 2012, 11:27 AM
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#22 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 62
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The lieutenant made a serious mistake.
He didn't kill 'em all. Wounded come back to haunt you
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February 4th, 2012, 12:23 PM
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#23 | | Fire Team Leader
Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY
Posts: 177
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I'm completely dumbfounded by this report. I don't know what to say,so I'll only say this I BET LIKE HELL THAT MARINE WHO LOST BOTH LEGS AND PART OF HIS HAND IN THAT AO IS HAPPY AS HELL THE LT DID WHAT HE DID..
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February 15th, 2012, 10:10 AM
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#24 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Michigan
Posts: 49
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Are we to expect any different from the PC "b**trds that do not want to hurt anyone's feelings! Sure let's send our troops over, tie thier hands, expect results and then smack'em when they get them, against a cowardous enemy that purposely blends in with the "local nationals" because they know "we have ROE" and our own politicians are willing to throw them under the bus at the slightest bit of "controversy". My God,a tractor's feelings have been violated! This is sadly the trend our country is headed for, I mean the majority has voted for "change" and look what that has gotten us. I say OOHRAH MARINE for showing some iniative. I know one thing for sure, the Lt. will take the BS like a man and deal with it, regardless of what the "management" did not have the balls to!
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February 17th, 2012, 05:47 PM
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#25 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Utah
Posts: 43
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Nothing like fighting with yours hands tied behind your back.
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March 8th, 2012, 11:31 PM
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#26 | | Squad Leader
Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NW IL / NE IA
Posts: 280
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I liked how they charged him with destroying a National vehicle. It was a tractor. IF that is a National vehicle then maybe they shouldn't allow the local population to use it in the aid of terrorists. Also, if the local population is helping a bomb maker escape couldn't that mean the population is NOT friendly? How did they know the teens assisting the bomb maker in escaping aren't the same guys that have been trying to ambush Marine patrols at night? Children engage in combat all over the world. To say we can't engage with youths is ridiculous. It is like saying we won't search a woman going through a checkpoint. If you do things like that the enemy will use it to their advantage. Doom on our troops. A giant BOO to all the pussie-footing upper brass that set these ROEs up.
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March 9th, 2012, 05:25 AM
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#27 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ohio
Posts: 54
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Being PC takes away my right to have an opinion!!! What don't the idiots understand about war "THERE ARE NO RULES"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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March 9th, 2012, 05:47 AM
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#28 | | Fire Team Leader
Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: north carolina/ CLT
Posts: 188
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I am so sick of the poor political leadership BY BOTH PARTIES. I was at a show a few months ago and was talking to a Ret MC Col...retired 2000 30 years of service. He reenforsed the observation that LEADERSHIP in all branchs is at a all time low. I posted about this over the AF " gangster coffen" pics from months ago. Senior NCO's and officers are DUTY BOUND to edu and instruct the new folks on the ways of the service. My Uncle was a Marine in the South Pacific, he killed a $hit load of people that were killing Marines, he didnt radio a request to pull the trigger, he just killed every Jap he could fire at....thats the Job of a Marine when at war. From vietnam on the PC group has de-balled our service. In addition WW2 was a declaired war EVERYONE got behind, was passed by Congress, unlike the $hit we have put our military through the past 60 years.
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March 9th, 2012, 05:51 AM
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#29 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio
Posts: 47
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Lt Waddell showed up to 3/7 a few months before I got out. He is an awesome officer and leader. I know him, I knew a lot of the guys in his platoon. Its a shame that the battalion commander is leaving him out to dry. Another great leader is losing his career because of bureaucracy.
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March 9th, 2012, 05:51 AM
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#30 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: The Last Best Place
Posts: 1,867
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This is why we should stop overextending ourselves in these stupid conflicts. If we have to assume everyone and everything is our friend until they squeeze the trigger on us, how the hell are we supposed to accomplish ANYTHING? How do THEY know it was just a "local national tractor" and not the next VBIED that takes out half their unit the next day? Damn glad I didn't subject myself to this fecal matter. If I go to fight a war, by God I'm going to fight it like one mean . Either we kill the enemy or we don't. That's all that matters about war, the rest is just how you do it.
Let the Muslims go back to killing each other, like in Syria. One side is backed by Russia, the other Al-Qaeda. As long as they're killing each other, we're winning, because there's less of them left to attack us. Hell if one side pulls ahead we could even bomb them just to keep the fight going. Karzai isn't our friend any more than the Taliban.
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